sligh with torment

Beyond Dominia: The Type Two Magic Mill: sligh with torment

By Guapeton on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 12:53 am:

Torment has thrown us a couple of very nice cards to make a sligh... check this out:

4 Grim Lavamancer (broken)
3 Spark Mage
4 Goblin Raider
4 Skullscorch (replaces the other 2cc creature, firebrand ranger)
4 Balduvian Barbarians
2 Skizzik

4 Reckless Charge (simply amazing)
4 Firebolt
4 Fire/Ice
3 Urzas Rage

4 Shivan Reef (for ice and sb)
1 Keldon Necropolis (not sure about this one)
4 Barbarian Ring (uncounterable damage is good)
12 Mountain

3 Rushing River (for cop red, spiritmonger and other nasty cards)
3 Hibernation
3 Engulfing Flames
4 Price of Glory
2 open slots

I think the deck has some real chances at a competitive level. Ive been testing the pre torment version and it justs wrecks psycathog, so it could be a good metagame call...

So... any ideas or comments?

By demonlich on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 09:25 am:

hhmmm i would change balduvian babarians out with Ember Beast...

By Immaterial on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 10:29 am:

What about Violent Eruption and Fiery Temper as cheap, efficient removal spells?
I quite like Possessed Barbarian as a 4/4 black first striker after threshold.

The Balduvian Barbarians as quite solid, but I feel they are not strong enough for the deck, given their 2 toughness.
I would probably remove the Fire/Ices for Violent Eruptions as they can remove large creatures or several smaller ones, and are also instants.

Have a nice day,

By Mr. X on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 10:30 am:

SLigh is the worst shit in the magic world. (And I won ´t give my opinion on anyone who uses it)

By Imm on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 11:00 am:

And you posted why?

By WuRaider on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 11:18 am:

Im not sure but having Grim Lavamancer AND Barbarian Rings is probably not the best combo. Maybe just 2 barbarian rings. And personally, I like Flameburst or Volcanic Hammer over Reckless Charge. Skullscorch aka Hymn to Torch-Your-Ass....evil card.

By Spike on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 11:59 am:

how about this

4xRaging Goblin
4xGrim Lavamancer
4xMogg Sentry

4xGoblin Raider
4xVolcanic hammer

4xEmber Beast
4xLonghorn Firebeast


4xBarbarian Ring

I've been playing around with this, and it works pretty well. Red doesn't need discard, sligh is all about 20 to the head, in fact, it works on the principal of playing out damage faster than your opponent can stop it, and discard isn't damage. Direct damage and creatures are a far better idea than maindeck discard or land destruction.

By BeBe, the Redeemer (Bebe) on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 12:22 pm:

Pardic Arsonist needs a look mas well. With four FTKs and four Pardic Arsonists you have great creature control. Threshold is not hard to achieve

By aaayyyy ella on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 01:08 pm:

yo quiero taco bell

By Vegeta2711 on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 01:21 pm:

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spark Mage
4 Goblin Raider
4 Firebrand Ranger
4 Longhorn Beast

4 Reckless Charge
4 Volcanic Drago
4 Skullscorch (Almost always a one sided Flame Rift)
4 Urza's Rage

4 Karpulsan Forest
2 City of Brass
14 Mountain

4 Hull Breach
4 Yavimaya Barbarian
3 Pillage
4 Price of Glory

This has been working pretty well for me. Also any deck running 16 or more creatures, must run Reckless Charge, that card is insane. Also if you decide to run Barb. Rings, don't run Lavamancer, I would also think about not running Firebolt if you are running the Lavamancer. That's based more off personal prefrence and overall specfic deck performance though.


By tonto on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 03:59 pm:

Here is my take on this deck:

4 grim lavamancer
4 mogg sentry
4 goblin raider
4 hell-bent raider
4 flametogue kavu

4 reckless charge
4 firebolt
4 volcanic hammer
4 urza's rage

4 barbarian ring
16 mountain

Skullscorch is terrible in this deck. Volcanic Hammer is way better, because it can hit creatures, and doesn't give them the option of pitching 2 cards.

Firebolts and Barbarian Rings are really good in here regardless of whether you use Lavamancers or not. Firebolt is just a sorcery-speed shock that can be flashed back. There is no reason to use shocks instead, even if you are using Lavamancers.

If you happen to draw a Barbarian Ring and a Lavamancer, who cares if you never get to threshold. If you are going to lose because of taking a couple points off a barbarian ring, you are going to lose anyway.


By Guapeton on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 04:41 pm:

After a bit of testing i realized the inly really bad matchup is white lightning mainly cause of 2 cards: fire/ice is almost always 2 for 1 agaisnt sligh and galinas knight is really annoying, with the only solution being a ring...
I like the idea of splashing green for hull breach...ill try it
Anyone has any other ideas for the sb?

By Drizzt on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 04:55 pm:

Here's something really radical, but might work. What do you guys think of something like this:

Creatures: (20)
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Goblin Raider
4x Ragin Goblin
4x Mogg Sentry
4x Goblin Glider (???)

Spells: (25)
4x Volcanic Hammer
4x Firebolt
4x Flameburst
4x Shock
3x Scorching Lava
2x Fire/Ice
4x Reckless Charge

Lands: (15- radical, I know)
4x Barbarian Ring
11x Mountain

Basically this deck has a bunch of cheap threats with cheap burn to the dome. I doesn't run any of the bigger red critters due to the low mana count. Just a thought, would it work?

By Stop Chanting Orim on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 06:16 pm:

4 lavamancer
4 sonic seizures
4 volcanic hammer
4 skullscorch
4 goblin sentry
3 devastating dreams
4 reckless charge
3 skizzik
3 rage
3 hell bent raider
4 other spells

20 mountains

By Levin334 on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 01:17 am:

Why don't you run Longhorn Firebeast? The whole goal of the deck is to deal damage fast, and the Firebeast seems to get it done much quicker than Barbarians. It doesn't seem to me that his drawback will ever hurt you. Even if your opponent pays the five life to keep him off the board for whatever reason, he's just that much closer to death.

By 2 on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 01:24 am:

"If you happen to draw a Barbarian Ring and a Lavamancer, who cares if you never get to threshold. If you are going to lose because of taking a couple points off a barbarian ring, you are going to lose anyway. "

Um your an idiot, play against G/R or another sligh deck, and see how much those few life points matter.

By Guapeton on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 02:38 am:

some other cards iv been considering including
goblin sentry (a beating against control) and orcish artillery.
About longhorn beast, i dont see the advantage of running them over the barbarians, giving the opponent an option is almost never a good idea (skullscorch is an exception :))
And regarding the lavamancer-barbarian ring dilema, I think they are both great cards for this deck, too good to cut any of them, so im gonna run them both, unless testing shows me im completely wrong...
Some other sb ideas would be nice too... thanx

By War Wolf (Warwolf) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 02:48 am:

IMO, Skullscorch is bad and Longhorn is good. Longhorn either gives you a cheap creature or gives your opponent 5 to the head. In a deck dedicated to killing the opponent as quickly as possible neither one is a downside. Skullscorch is great if you can cast it on turn 2. Once it gets farther into the game, however, the opponent is either holding lands or nothing at all...and they can still choose to discard if they have no cards.

By opium on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 12:50 am:

i played this version with a bunch of pals in our own tourney and this deck has kicked ass! psychatogs, landy, machinehead, even b/w control bowed down to this deck. here is my version:

4 raging goblins
4 hell-bent raider (i love this card!)
4 mogg sentry
4 minotaur explorer
4 grim lavamancer
3 ftk
2 skizzik
1 kamahl, pit fighter (just for fun)

4 flameburst
4 firebolt
4 volcanic hammer
2 blazing salvo
2 recless charge

18 mountains

the grim lava mancer seems to work better than the barbarian rings in this version. so i only used the grim lavamancer. if i used the barbarian rings with lavamancer it would be contradicting the grim lavamancer. and besides the barbarian ring can be painful againts r/g aggro and sligh decks..

By Erkka Pynnönen (Serpent) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 04:46 am:

Why is everyone overlooking Rites of Initiation? It's an insane card!

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Raging Goblin
4 Minotaur Explorer
4 Ember Beast
3 Skizzik

4 Firebolt
4 Skullscroch
4 Urza's Rage
4 Volcanic Hammer
2 Rites of Initiation

3 Barbarian Ring
4 Shivan Reef < look at the sb.
13 Mountain

4 Fire/Ice < What can you do when OppOrb hits the table, or the gigantic Atog smashes you?
3 Hibernation < The way I see it, anything with green is a problem.
2 Island
and some bitchin' red cards.

Maybe the blue sb isn't such a good idea, but you can always play with pure, red mountains...

By amos on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 02:11 pm:

I've been testing this deck and longhorn firebeast is freaking amazing. Forcing them to make 2 bad choices. In my opinion, ftk belongs sideboard and 4 copies of skizzik belong main. My reasoning is that every card in sligh should be to push damage through or to disrupt. here is my version.
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spark Mage
4 Firebolt
4 Reckless Charge
4 Shock
4 Mad Dog
4 Mogg Jailer
4 Skullscorch
4 Longhorn Firebeast
4 Skizzik

4 Boil
4 Urza's Rage
3 Fire/ice
4 Flametounge Kavu

The sideboard is still experimental, but in a metagame with a lot of U/x fast creatures backed up by boil and a lot of burn is bound to hurt. What do y'all think? I think it can actually race r/g because of all the burn and it can definatly beat most forms of control pretty easily. If reanimation or combo stratagies become good then this deck dies because anything too fat to be burned coming out on turns 2-4 really really sucks.

By Eldain on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 06:47 pm:

I don't see the reason to play Longhorn Firebeast and Scullscorch. When your opponent is worried more about a creature than taking the damage, why don't you just play a creature that can't be 'countered'? And when your opponent is worrying about the four damage of Scullscorch and thus discarding two cards to avoid the damage, why not play the Hammer instead, which gives you a lot more versitality? Giving your opponent the decision what he wants to happen and what not seems to me to be a bad thing, especially in a deck like Sligh. Thus I'd rather play Volcanic Hammer and the (quite bad) Balduvian Barbarians instead.

By Guapeton on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 07:02 pm:

the boils are practically useless except maybe against psychatog, probably the only deck that uses islands...
Heres my final decklist:

4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Mogg Sentry
4 Goblin Raider
3 Firebrand Rager
3 Balduvian Barbarian
2 Skizzik

4 Firebolt
4 Fire/Ice
3 Volcanic Hammer
3 Urzas Rage

4 Shivan Reef
4 Barbarian Ring
15 Mountain

3 Esnaring Bridge
3 Rushing River
4 Price of Glory
3 Engulfing Flames
2 Orcish Artillery (against control)

Running just 2 ftks and skizziks gives me a beatiful curve and allows me to play only 21 lands...
Its working really well (except maybe for the obvious problem between the mancer and the ring)

By Guapeton on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 07:03 pm:

forgot about the 4x reckless charge

By Andrew, the Sphinx Slayer (Andrew) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 08:48 pm:

Longhorn firebeast is - strictly - worse than the balduvian barbarians. They have the same effective cc and the same P/T. One can be countered for five life. The other can't. The firebeast is a fairly simple skill-tester - it's just worse than a card most people think is unplayable.

By War Wolf (Warwolf) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 09:09 pm:

Longhorn Firebeast isn't -strictly- worse than the Barbarians. The casting cost is the same, but it gives your opponent a choice...and he might make the wrong one. You WANT him to counter the Beast. He does it, and he's a quarter of the way closer to dead. The creature Longhorn Firebeast can be stopped long before it deals five (six) damage, but the spell Longhorn Firebeast is an undercosted Lava Axe.

By Intrepid911 (Intrepid) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 11:12 pm:

warwolf, giving your opponent a choice as to whether your creature resolves is bad. Is Blazing Salvo better than lightning bolt??

By Vesuvan (Vesuvan) on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 12:38 am:

Warwolf, I've tested the Firebeasts and they're strictly worse than a creature which doesn't give your opponent a choice in the matter about whether or not they come into play. If your opponent has no removal for a few turns, the 5 damage is less than the 3/2 would do, and if they have got removal, the Beast does nothing (except die to it). Balduvian Barbarians are better, though I would recommend Hell Bent Raider as the 3-drop for the deck.

Reckless Charge is a beast in Sligh. It should be used without question. If your creatures can't attack, you've lost anyway.

Skullscorch is a waste of time. It's good in the openning hand, but a useless topdeck later when the opponent just discards 2 lands (or has an empty hand). Volcanic Hammer probably shouldn't make the cut because there's so much better burn available.

My recommendation as to what cards should be used (note that I don't have a complete decklist yet since I'm still testing it) include Sonic Seizure (good with Madness burn), Violent Eruption, Fiery Temper, Reckless Charge, Firebolt, Pyromania (this card is better than it seems, especially with sideboarded Bridges), Raging Goblin, Grim Lavamancer, Mogg Sentry, Goblin Raider, Firebrand Raider (Explorer is too much card-disadvantage) Hell Bent Raider, Flametongue Kavu (no excuse not to use these), Skizzik.

Cards for the sideboard include Ensnaring Bridge, Hull Breach (if adding Green), Price of Glory, Molten Influence (also better than it seems), Lava Blister and possibly Savage Firecat (though I'd be more comfortable with the Pyro-Bridge plan agaisnt Red-Green)

By rowe on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 07:21 pm:

I thought that I might give a somewhat different take on sligh.

4 Grim Lavamancers
4 Spark Mage
4 Goblin Raiders
2 Mad Dogs
4 Orcish Artillery
4 Flametounge Kavu

4 Reckless Charge
4 Firebolt
3 Volcanic Hammer
4 Urza's Rage
2 Devastaing Dreams

16 Mountains
4 Barbarian Rings
1 Keldon Necropolis

4 Price of Glory
3 Mountains
3 Savage Firecat
3 Scorching Lava
2 Devastating Dreams

The only major thing I've done that no one else has done is got rid of silly skizzik. There of course is nothing wrong with it, except that Flametounge is obviously better.
At this point, most people are saying, 'but sligh is a pure aggro deck and needs Skizzik. My response is no it isn't and it never was. Deadguy Red and all of those decks are pure aggro, but sligh is curve-based aggro-control. The problem is that people keep trying to build hyper-aggressive red decks, then lose to red-green who does aggro better. The answer is not to fight that fact.
All of my other choices reflect that. I have 22 spells that can potentially generate card advantage. Some of the decks above have less than 10. This means that I lose the fight against red-green (except for the occasional Las Vegas I win draw) until I sideboard. However, I am loaded against control, using even artillery, which in my opinion is the only 3 drop worth playing (no 3 drop is amazing, but this one is one that might actually do something if it lives, and I'll pay life for that.)
I think that this constuction represents the tightest construction of sligh possible. I would feel happy with this design in any format that didn't have a glut of red-green. Many metagames will not. And while only playtesting can prove it, I would wager that this does not lost to psycatog very much at all.

Sorry for the length,

By Levin334 on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 11:04 pm:

Why the hell are there three basic Mountains in your sideboard???

Sligh and Daedguy Red are the same thing to 90% of Magic players. Don't quibble over definitions.

You have nothing in your sideboard that will even make a dent in RG. Firecat is just an attacker and a burn spell away from death, and if I were RG I would just cast stuff and wait until I could alpha-strike you while the Firecat ties up your mana.

FTK is no longer the beatstick it was at States. Against half of the good decks (Tings and Psychatog) it doesn't even have a target anymore.

You can't say that this is the tightest construction possible if you've never played it. Theory has nothing on actual playtesting. Arrogance echoes throughout your post and you've never even PLAYED your deck? Riiiiight.

By scott kealy on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 06:18 am:

i look at the posts on this thread and feel sick.
the decks that are posted here are all terrible. and i see each of trying to say " hey, u know nothing, shut up". this also makes me sick. ppl are always gonna play red. just because they like it. so like don't fight, cos the guy who wrote this post in the first place wanted ideas and suggestions, not exactly what the optimal build should look like. because the optimal build is what works in your metagame. what gets u past the post.

so here is my suggestions to all the ppl trying to act big.

1. u ain't all that, so don't think u are.
2. stop the hate. if we work together we can build the universally optimal red deck.

as for my advice to everyone.

1. ask your self why every deck that has any red mana has 4 ftk in it. its because its insane. skizzik should be in any red heavy deck right now he is your ball lightining, because he punishes them for tapping out. don't say oh my mana base can't support them. MAKE YOUR MANA BASE SUPPORT THEM OR U WILL LOSE!!!!!

2. spark mage is utter crap. mogg sentry wrecks pschatog as long as you draw other creatures. this deck is good against psychatog because they play only four creatures. u just kill them b4 tog kills you. its an easy concept gentlemen. do not play spark mage.

3. lavamancer rocks but don't play four as you aren't ever gonna get them going all together. play ring as well. because u have to be greedy for burn. 4 ring 2-3 lavamancer. if u need more one drops replace the 4th lavamancer with raging goblin.

4x rage
4x firebolt
4x volcanic hammer
2-3 shocks

this makes the deck stupidly quick.

5. goblin legionaire!!

play forge
2 or 3 plains
city of brass

he is gas

hope this helps
i'll post a list later.

grafted skullcap ensnaring bridge and skullscorch(not main deck u board it against control either this or lava blister)

peace out a***r@r***

scott kealy

By aaayyy ELHA on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 03:01 pm:


By Bul@e on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 04:57 am:

Overmasters seem to work well in Sligh, mainly due to cantrip. Board or maindeck though?

By HorseMan on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 04:09 pm:

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spark Mage
3 Goblin Raider
3 Goblin Legionare
4 Hell-Bent Raider
3 Flametongue Kavu

4 Shock
4 Volcanic Hammer/scorching lava if cats are popular in your area
4 Urza's Rage
2 Devastating Dreams
2 Violent Eruption

13 Mountain
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Rith's Grove
2 Plains
1 Keldon Necropolis
1 City of Brass

3 Lava Blister
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Scorching Lava-if u dont have em main.otherwise hammer i guess
2 cop black---if it is popular
2 cop green
3 Disenchant/other enchantment removal

Sideboard can be changed depending on your metagame (duh)

This version is rather expensive to make for a sligh deck but it works.heres a cheap version for the hell of it.

4 Spark mage
4 Raging Goblin
4 Goblin Raider
4 Firebrand Ranger
4 Flametongue Kavu

4 Recklass Charge
4 Firebolt
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Scorching Lava
2 Fiery Temper/violent Eruption

17 Mountain
4 Barbarian Ring
1 Keldon Necropolis--only rare in deck.worth $2

By Rowe on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 07:16 pm:

Levin 334,

First of all, I would like to appologize if I came off as arrogant in my post. That was certainly not my intention.

First, I did not say that I had not playtested the deck. I applogize if that was your interpretation, but it shouldn't have been, as the phrase 'only playtesting will tell' is not a statement of no playtesting.

I have been playtesting the deck against R/G, monoblack, Junk variants, and a few rouge decks. Most of this testing was just to iron out mana issues and the like. As these decks will not represent the whole of any meta-game, I did not include results.

Still my results against R/G were very good compared to what I expected, about 40%. This is simply because of the deck's ability to make up card disadvantage from call long enought to burn people out.

The three mountains are to bring in with the Firecats. It is something that can be disagreed upon, but it is not anything new or special. Sligh decks have done it before.

Finally while you may be right about the needlessness of infering the differences between sligh and deadguy, the fact still remains that is difficult to play mono-red aggression with six or eight four drops. One has to go, and I chose to keep flametounge because while both are not optimal against psycatog decks becouse of counters, it will at least be able to force psycatog to lose more cards to survive if it does stay on the board.

scott- I think you are right about mogg sentry over spark mage, and I will try that in my own deck. I also think you are right about generating bad vibes in this post and if I was the cause I'd like to appologize again. Still, I disagree on the idea that skizzik is needed, because I do not believe that neither it nor flametounge are very good against the current best deck, and I would rather have flametounge against most of the field. I don't feel that flametounge is in any danger of being metagamed out of tournaments right now.


By Myre Skeleton, lesser Zombie (Myre_Skeleton) on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 10:18 pm:

Quapeton- Why did you post Skullscorch as a creature?

Just asking . . .

By Guapeton on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 01:14 pm:

I didnt, I just said that it replaced the ranger cause they are both 2cc spells, so u dont affect the mana curve...

By Levin334 on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 04:57 am:

To Its True:

Anyone who is playing Spark Mage wants to beat RG.

Anyone who is playing Volcanic Hammer wants to kill Call tokens and Finkels.

Anyone not playing Orcish Artillery has a more creature-based than burn-based deck.

Anyone not playing Pygmy Pyrosaur doesn't want their land tied up every turn when the point of Sligh is to tap out to cast threats.

Anyone playing Mad Dog is in a somewhat hopeless but needed search for a good two-drop.

By Eldain (Eldain) on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 06:52 am:

It is true as well that messages with flames will be deleted.

Your moderator

By scott kealy hamburgalar on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 12:01 am:


spark mage is bad. for god sakes accept it.

played mogg sentry or u will lose.

that is all.

By Levin334 on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 01:35 am:

I was replying to a message that was deleted by Eldain, which concerned all the cards mentioned above in the format I used. I personally do not use Spark Mage and run 4 Mogg Sentry, but against a heavy RG metagame Spark Mage can slow them down to a reasonable speed for you to keep up.

Also, you can say "Spark Mage is bad" but the rest is arrogant trash.

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