Braids... maindeck or sideboard?

Beyond Dominia: The Type Two Magic Mill: Braids... maindeck or sideboard?

By Doppelganger on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 11:09 pm:

I've been toying with Braids ever since Odyssey was released, and have built decks around her with each B/x combo, yet none really seemed to be more than sub-optimal. The best case was generally B/w, more or less because of the metagame around here (mostly control, so the discard really hurts). But the deck was still only winning about half the time. I just recently tried to rebuild it, and I started to think maybe she'd be a better sideboard option against control. Here's the new list so far:

4x Duress
4x Addle (not sure about Verdict w/ the madness running about..)
4x Chainer's Edict
4x Vindicate
4x Orim's Chant
3x Skeletal Scrying
2x Skeletal Scrying
2x Insidious Dreams
1x Yawgmoth's Agenda

4x Mesmeric Fiend
3x Faceless Butcher
3x Braids

4x Caves of Koilos
4x Tainted Field
16x Swamp

That's it. White provides more utility for the deck, blue brings card drawing and bounce, green has the Squirrel Nest soft lock, and red has loads of land destruction. Red seems like the best version right now, but what happens when an enchantment gets dropped that you can't handle? Maybe I'm just too paranoid about that. After all, I've got 12 ways to discard with the addition of the Fiend.
Let me know what you all think could be changed, and if I should just switch to a different color (I doubt if straight black would work well..).

By anonymous on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 11:13 am:

you run 3 skeletal scrying + 2 skeletal scrying = 5 skeletal scrying...
unlikely...what did you mean?

By deez on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 12:31 pm:

braids is just a weak card and too easy to remove. a 2/2 creature with 4cc, it comes out slow and her effect is somewhat slow, affecting both players so trying to build a deck around her is somewhat limited.

By Doppelganger on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 06:32 pm:

@anonymous: Hmmm I guess that looks odd eh? It was supposed to be 3x Skeletal Scrying and 2x Death Grasp.

@deez: I agree, the deck isn't really that powerful. I've been running it in casual play just because it's a fun deck to play. I think I may just switch back to B/W/u "No-Mar," as I see it being called.

By Guapeton on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 01:59 pm:

How about something like this:

4 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Laquatus Champion

3 Skeletal Scrying
4 Vindicate
4 Gerrards Verdict
4 Duress
4 Vindicate
4 Rancid Earth
4 Chainers Edict

4 Caves of Koilos
4 Tainted Field
15 Swamp

Im still not sure about the champion but i needed a finisher and i really dislike the scuta...

By Amos, Defender of the Moxless (Amos) on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 02:19 pm:

how about an even more LD based version? Try...

4 Braid's
4 Mindslicer
4 Spectral Lynx (or maybe Ichorid)

4 Vindicate
4 Rancid Earth
4 Befoul

4 Duress
4 Gerrard's Verdict
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Yawgmoth's Agenda
4 Caves Of Koilos
4 Tainted Field
1 Plains
15 Swamp
Sideboard would include
Death Grasp (vs. Aggro)
1 Phyrexian Arena (control)
maybe cop's of somekind?

I think this might work...ld until you get land advantage, drop braid's, have them sack land a couple of times around while you blow it up. And eventually sack braids to her own ability while beating the whole time.

By Doppelganger on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 04:21 pm:

Guapeton, as for the finisher you could also try the Nightmare or D. Angel. Both would be excellent I think.
I like your version Amos... except that I think the Mindslicers may be overkill on the hand destruction. Maybe they could be replaced with Faceless Butcher, and the Spectral Lynx, IMO, is better in here than Ichorid due to the lack of creatures. Although you could be rogue and use the sexy Putrid Warrior :)
As for the issue of whether to use Scrying or Arena for card drawing, I'm still not sure which to go with. The Arena has better synergy with the Agenda, but the burst of cards from the Scrying can be a lot more useful sometimes.
The deck is still a work in progress, but as soon as I'm ready with another version I'll post it. Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming.
****pointless aside****
Have you ever seen someone cast Bamboozle on their opponent, drop two Booby Traps, then target his opponent with Cephalid Broker's ability? I laughed my ass off... talk about casual rogue!
****end pointless aside****

By Amos, Defender of the Moxless (Amos) on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 02:47 pm:

lol@the pointless aside...
I think that mindslicer is a necessary evil because you need a threat and the extra hand destruction is just gravy, and if you play them then you should definatly be playing Arena as it helps you recover better than scrying and scrying hurts you more against aggro. Also, vs. aggro you definatly side them out for prolly faceless butchers. Braids can be very strong if dropped early, but how about this interaction w/braids/mindslicer

Drop mindslicer, swing, cast diabolic intent.
Diabolic intent reads, as an additional cost to play diabolic intent sacrifice a creature. Sack mindslicer, his leaves play ability goes on the stack and resolves, both players dump their hands. then diabolic intent resolves, you tutor for either card drawing (scry or arena) or braids or maybe another slicer. Then you have an advantage, one card in hand vs. zero. pretty cool huh.

By Sideath on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 03:29 pm:

well so far the best braids decks seem to be B/G
off the top of my head for what i can remember they were like this this...

3 braids
4 BoP's
3 llanowar elves
3 spirit monger
4 squirrel nest
4 chatter of the squirrel
3 acorn harvest
1 paralell evolution
4 chainer's edict
and then 8 more slots for what you desire
(overrun possibly)
23 lands

with this jsut do the usual squirrel and sacrifice that for braids. 4 braids is too much. and you dont need braids to win. spirit mongers to apply pressure or always that laquata's champ instead but spirit monger is better because it's pump. but if you need a faster kill then just use laquata's.

By Amos, Defender of the Moxless (Amos) on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 02:25 am:

this isn't meant to be a traditional braids deck, more of a ld deck that uses braids as a reusable ld card, not a soft lock.
The problem with decks like the one posted above is that if they stall out, or your opponent drops a wrath, or even worse, a deed, you just lose.

This deck could be good, let me build it and test it and get back to you.

By Doppelganger on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 12:21 pm:

I've come up with a good combo... the problem is it requires 3 cards to run efficiently, 2 to just run:
Last Laugh + Lashknife Barrier + Braids
I doubt if it's worth the trouble of trying to set up, as it doesn't interact well with the Arena or Scrying. But anyway here's my current Braids decklist:

4x Duress
4x Gerrard's Verdict
4x Rancid Earth
4x Vindicate
4x Befoul
3x Faceless Butcher (maybe Nantuko Shade?)
3x Braids
3x Phyrexian Arena
2x Mindslicer
2x Mutilate
2x Persecute
1x Yawgmoth's Agenda

4x Caves of Koilos
4x Tainted Field
1x Plains
15x Swamp

The 2 Perscutes have helped out tremendously. I found running 4 copies of Mindslicer to be too much, so this has proved a worthy replacement. The Butchers seem out of place here (no CiP creatures), but I plan on having Gloomdrifter in the SB (2/2, 3B, Flying, Threshold: When Gloomdrifter comes into play all nonblack creatures get -2/-2 until end of turn).
Also, do you think maybe B/U/w could work with this? Red would allow access to Recoil, FoF, Meddling Mage, Liquify, Teferi's Moat, etc. Just a thought.

By Doppelganger on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 02:06 pm:

Jeez. Let me restate that:
*BLUE* would allow access to Recoil, FoF....

"Don't ever get stuck in the sky, when you're high"
--System of a Down, "Peep-Hole"

By Guapeton on Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 08:43 pm:

This is my latest version, it seems to be working nicely...its a more aggro approach than the other decklists in this thread... I especially like the interaction between rotting giant and braids...
Milikin gives u a steady flow of cards in ur yard so u can use the giants and the scrying, and also gives u a nice mana boost so u can drop a couple of creatures on the 3rd turn...

4 Vindicate
4 Duress
4 Gerrards Verdict
3 Skeletal Scrying
2 Death Grasp

3 Millikin
3 Spectral Lynx
3 Rotting Giant
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Phyrexian Rager

2 Cabal Pit
4 Caves of Koilos
5 Plains
11 Swamp

4 Slay
2 Disenchant
2 Execute
3 Crimson Acolyte
3 Addle
1 Spectral Lynx

By Doppelganger on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 03:55 pm:

I've made some modifications to the deck, but haven't had a chance to test it yet. I was hoping to get some more input before I moved on with it (I'm sure there are numerous things you guys won't like :)) Here it is:

4x Duress
4x Gerrard's Verdict
4x Vindicate
3x Braids
3x Mindslicer
3x Phyrexian Arena
3x Chainer's Edict
3x Faceless Butcher
3x Death Grasp
2x Diabolic Intent
2x Wrath of God
1x Chainer
1x Yawgmoth's Agenda

4x Caves of Koilos
12x Swamp
8x Plains

(still pending) Sideboard:
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Aegis of Honor
2x Spectral Lynx (all I've got)
2x Disenchant
2x Execute
3x Crimson Acolyte
4x Slay

Okay, here are some of the things I'm find troubling:
1) Chainer is terrific when you Intent him out after sac'ing a Mindslicer, or after removing him with a Butcher and dropping Wrath of God. Does he belong in the maindeck or the sideboard? His 3 toughness makes him a big target (kinda like the Infiltrator), but against beatdown, he's a bomb.
2) I'm not sure if the Diabolic Intents should stay in or if they should be replaced by possibly one more Arena and another Edict. It's amazing when you sac Mindslicer to it, but other than that your only options are Braids, Chainer, and the Butcher. Perhaps even Diabolic Tutor (kinda expensive..)?
That's it for now. Any help would be appreciated.
****another stupid aside****
Has anyone seen a site with the Torment precon deck listings? If so could you send it my way? Thanks much.
******end stupid aside******

By Zuran on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:11 am:

4 braids
4 stonerain
4 pillage
4 rancid earth
alot cheap creature removal....

A friend of mine is trying this deck
and even my psychatog deck is having trouble
with it, it is really nasty!!

By BaNe on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:04 am:

first off g/b braids is awful, anything that uses tokens that aren't COH to win have to be bad. Now your versions of b/w braids show promise, but you are all overlooking the best archtype. ( at least thats my opionion) -last provincials I played braids and went 4-0 then 0-3 drop when the flood kicked in and she went to a CURE concert. And I also plan to play braids at regionals as it (mine) has a very good matchup aganist tog, however the r/g goes about 45/55, and that needs to be dealt with. NOw if your like me and serious about a good braids deck and not just wasting time before your next class starts, then email and we will discuss the best possible build. CYA!

By Random-Miser on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 01:38 pm:

God you people are soooo far off...G/B is obviously the way to go sonce it allows for a super fast braids, and the means to sustain her practically indefinitely. Here uinlike above is a "good" decklist...In fact I just got finished winning my third major T2 tourney with this :-D

HATE.dec...Or the deck formerly known As ROCK.

4 Braids Cabal Minion
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llawnor Elves
4 Duress
2 Addle
1 Diabolic Intent--Very situational card..the tutor effect WILL on occasion win you games, but its not something ya wanna see too often...its combo power with slicer warrants the one copy, but any more and your temtping fate big time since you dont want to draw this too often.
4 Mindslicer--Amos got this Idea from combination with braids it removes your opponents ability to keep up and will Lock them out VERY quickly if they dont topdeck like Mad...of course what makes it usable is the mad acceleration from birds and elves
3 Spellbane Centuar--absolute MUST for maindeck
3 SpiritMonger--The Beast that gives agro nightmares.
3 Beast Attack-->Can be calls instead, although the instant speed of the Beast does have its advantages, and with mad acceleration the difference in cost is negligable.
2 Call of the herd--->another reason why slicer is good...they discard theyre end up discarding a few of these Babies.
2 Perniscious Deed--->doesnt have great synergy with Birds, and tokens, but does have great synergy with everything else, as well as providing an "all purpose" answer to anything, and sluaghtering Beatdown. One of the reasons you never play the second token till absolutely nescarry.
4 Llawnor wastes
3 City of brass
9 forest
8 swamp

SB--this here be the tech!

1 spirit monger
1 Spellbane centuar
3 Gea's Herrald--soooo strong!
3 Eastern Palladin--this here DEVASTATES sooo many decks
3 Consume Strength--super techy, has won me more games then I can count, they are great anti-Kavu/Anti burn tech...tend to be what makes the Palladins still around, and what makes them turn into such a beast.
2 Perniscious deed--when putting these end, take tokens out for more stable critters.
2 Ebony treefolk--Great antiburn critter...very solid and replaces token generators when putting in deeds ect ect.

Well thats the decklist so doesnt include torment and enjoys a 43-6 record over apprentice so far!

I have had more turn 3 concesions with this deck then with anything else I have EVER played!

By Levin334 on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 09:17 pm: it the REAL Random-Miser, or some poor facsimile? Only time will tell...

By Random-Miser on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 11:17 pm:

Of course I'm the Real Miser :-/ Of course on MTGnews I dont have to worry about impersonators.... The decklist above is true greatness ;-)

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