Casual - G/R Aggro (I guess you can call it Fires)

Beyond Dominia: Casual and Beginner's Advice Mill: Casual - G/R Aggro (I guess you can call it Fires)

By Roxas (Roxas) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 06:27 pm:

Here's a casual aggro deck I thought up, centered around getting a fat creature into play, supported by land disruption and burn.

4 Blastoderm
4 Ernham Djinn
4 Shivan Wurm

4 Plow Under
4 Stone Rain (could be Pillage, but I'm worried about the RR cost)

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate

4 Fires of Yavimaya

4 Land Grant
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Taiga
5 Forest
3 Mountain

Basic Strategy: Play Fires, followed by a fat creature. Once a fat creature is in play, win with it while disrupting the opponent with land destruction.

Any suggestions?

-Jesus Roxas

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 06:39 pm:

Plow under is awfully expensive...maybe something like Creeping Mold (more utility) or Avalance Riders (gives you a creature too)?

If you want a disruptive strategy, I'd think wastelands and strip mine are mandatory. Sol Ring Should probably be in there as well.

Concordant Crossroads might be a better chiace than fires, as it's cheaper, most other decks don't have creatures as good as yours, and it can' destroy Abyss or Nether Void if timed right.

I'd probably modify the burn a bit, trying to fit in Fireball (can take out multiple blockers) and Stormbind (might have some cards sitting in hand that can be directly turned into damage)

Sylvan Library and maybe Wheel are also possiblities. Library works well with Land Grant (shuffle means you see 3 new cards) and against slow decks can be alomst a green Necro.

Shivan Wurm is ok, but I've always found the difference between 4 and 5 cc to be huge in type 1 play. Have you tried something like Hunted Wumpus? I've always thought of using it, never actually tried it. Things like Cradle Guard and Citanul Centaurs are also cute, if you don't mind the echo costs.

By Roxas (Roxas) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 06:51 pm:

I'll give the Crossroads a try over the Fires, though I think the pump might be useful. Getting rid of Abyss/Void is a nice plus.

I've tried to squeeze Libraries in, but I couldn't find something to cut. Same with the Wheel of Fortune.... and the Wastes/Strip. The mana base is tight as it is, and replacing stuff with colorless sources could hurt too much. I'll try one less Mountain for a Strip.

. They're in for Plow Under.

Same with Sol Ring. Down a Mountain, up a Sol Ring.

About the creatures: I really couldn't find much better. I'm not a big fan of echo, and it's annoying when Hunted Wumpus puts a Shivan Dragon or Morphling into play. I might try Needletooth Djinns over the Wurms though.

-4 Plow Under
-2 Mountain

+4 Creeping Mold
+1 Sol Ring
+1 Strip Mine

-Jesus Roxas

By Roxas (Roxas) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 07:27 pm:

Doh. That line was supposed to say:

bracket Kicks self for forgetting about Creeping Mold bracket, but it seems that those don't work. Oops.

-Jesus Roxas

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 03:31 am:

Nettletoth kinda sucks in my ekperience. Usually the runner up after Blasto and Ernie for me has been Wildfire Emissary. The problem is that relative to the type 1 environment, green's fat is just not that great or in sufficient quantity to truly make it's nominal position as the "creature color" something useful. Once you go past Ernie and Blasto, you realize there really aren't any other good green fatties. Things like Verdant Force are good, but way too expensive, and as you have pointed out, other alternatives (Wumpus and Nettletooth) aren't up to snuff. If you are working in the 4 mana range, here's the best britters I can think of for red and green, in only a general ordering:

Wildfire Emisssary
Balduvian Horde
Nettletooth Djinn
Lumbering Satyr
Hunted Wumpus
Mungha Wurm

Once you start trying to nail down the actually cards you haev to work with, you begin to realize just how slim the pickings can be.

This is of course part of the stuff to be addressed in the primer I'm writing (which has rapidly grown to Rakso-like proportions) about Fires, Zoo, and the like.

One thing I'm always wary about with this deck is the gap in the mana curve from 1 to 4. I really, really wish they printed a decent 3 mana creature for green. I constantly find it amazing that two non-creature colors, blue and black get Serendib Efreet and Negator, while Green is left to make do with Megatherium and Gorilla Warrior.

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 03:33 am:

Whoa! Hold that,...silly me, stuck in a Mirage-Visions-Weatherlight world...

Call of the Herd is an excellent 3 drop, and I think you should consider it.

The prohibitive cost (my my standards of in print cards anyway) and Type 2 oriented nature of Call has blocked it from my mind I think. :)

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 03:34 am:

As to the general problem of fitting things in, I think you're deck should drop the Stone Rain, as they are for killing land only, and Land-d is only a subtheme of you're deck. I'd consider replacing them with something that also deals damage, like Avalanche Riders.

By Matt D'Avanzo, the Sylvan Librarian (Matt) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 03:44 pm:

I think this sort of deck demands acceleration. If he hasn't got moxen he needs a full 8-12 Elves/Birds. Futhermore he could consider going mono-green. Red adds little useful fat and he could just as easily use any of the 12 3cc green ld spells.

By Matt D'Avanzo, the Sylvan Librarian (Matt) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 03:45 pm:

Oh and the 3cc and 4cc creatures could be sumplement with artifact guys like Idols and Jugs. I would still want to run Sap Burst though, I think.

By Rebel428 (Rebel428) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 05:02 pm:

Matt: Off color Moxen is a good idea. Should I cut the Elves/Birds for them?

Also, I wanted to avoid artifact creatures because Disenchant, Gorilla Shaman, and the like are pretty common here (partly because of the recent surge of Stacker decks). Token creatures won't be too helpful either, since bounce is popular here too (mainly Wash Out and Capsize). I'm running them anyway, however, for lack of something better.

Going mono green is a possibility, but I like burn. It might be worth cutting for consistency though.

I've completely cut the land destruction as Redman suggested, since I tend to have more mana available than them anyhow. In its place are River Boa. I'm keeping the Creeping Molds for utility though.

Here's a draft of a new decklist.

4 Blastoderm
4 Ernham Djinn
4 Shivan Wurm
4 River Boa
4 Call of the Herd
4 Saproling Burst

4 Creeping Mold

4 Concordant Crossroads

5 Moxen
4 Land Grant
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Sol Ring
14 Forest

After a little goldfishing, it seems better than the first deck posted above. I bet it could still use some work though.

By Rebel428 (Rebel428) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 06:09 pm:

Doh, can't run Shivan Wurms without red can you. They are Needletooth Djinns now.

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 06:41 pm:

I'd run Juggernaught before Nettletooth. Will help against Wash Out as well. Most people will side out any disenchants after game 1 anyway.

I didn't suggest Moxes becasue I didn't think you had them. :) But yeah, accelleration, as much as you can get, is definitely neccesary.

Might Wall of Roots be a possibility? It can block your opponent's critter till you lay a fatty, and can be used on the first turn it comes out (also doesn't tap to use it's mana, so can still block). It has no power though. Just a thought.

Is Sap Burst that good? I always seem to have trouble breaking the 4cc barrier in decks like this.

By BD Stompist (Fbi) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 06:45 pm:

Redman: Phyrexian War Beast is the default 3cc pick I guess if yu can't run negator or dibs :(

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 10:33 pm:

Yes, but the difference between a 7 turn clock and a 5 or 4 turn is rather huge.
Call of the Herd would not be sufficient if it couldn't be cast twice.

By Dante (Dante) on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 06:53 pm:

Rebel - Gorilla shaman can only destroy Non-creature artifacts.

Roxas - if your mana is good but tight, don't replace a land for the Strip Mine, replace a LD spell. Think of the Strip as a fast and uncounterable LD spell (it's restricted for a reason). Depending on what kind of decks/land mix you think you'd face, maybe do the same (swap for LD spell not land) for a wasteland or two.

For a casual environment, try phyrexian processor:
Artifact 4
When Phyrexian Processor comes into play, pay any amount of life.
4, TAP: Put a Minion token into play. Treat this token as a black creature with power and toughness each equal to the amount of life paid at the time Phyrexian Processor came into play.

...although you don't really have any other disenchant targets, so you might be burned, but it's definitely good at throwing out fatties (if you have the life) or a bunch of not-so-fatties if you don't.


By Rebel428 (Rebel428) on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 07:01 pm:

BTW, Rebel and Roxas are both me. I just had a name change. It's a long story.

"Rebel - Gorilla shaman can only destroy Non-creature artifacts."

Doh, forgot about that. I'm still not a big fan of artifact creatures, though I guess Juggernaut is better than Needletooth Djinn.

Phyrexian Processor might be an idea. I'll try it out.

By Often Lost on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 12:54 pm:

Man, where are your Orcish Lumberjaks. Those things are crucial. I mean, 2 turn wurm or burst is just evil

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 01:06 pm:

I just thought of somethign that might be a better creature thean Nettletooth or Juggernaught...Emperor Crocodile. My firend used to play with them all the time, I'm surprised I didn't think of him earlier.

By Rebel428 (Rebel428) on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 02:09 pm:

Emperor Crocodile is a good idea, but it could be problematic. Would it be necessary to ditch Moxen for Birds to play around the Crocodile's drawback?

By MasterofMasters on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 09:02 pm:

Hey dude, you should put some Verdant Forces in their. That would be a awsome deck.

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