what next? (ooc, RR all)

Beyond Dominia: The Role Playing Mill: what next? (ooc, RR all)

By Burn, the Keeper of the Flame (Fereno) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:58 pm:

so, with every pretty much set(the few of us still here) on restarting from scratch, and trying to make this mill better, what do we do next?

Im pretty sure that we’re gonna start a whole new world, or else elro will probably have trouble keeping himself from picking apart posts etc. But before we start this new world, we need to change something. I take that back, we need to change a lot. but before we can change anything, we need to know what needs to be changed. Im going to outline every last problem that this mill has. And ways to solve them.

Probably the biggest problem is theres not enough people to keep it going. This has many causes that need to be found and stopped. One is its so hard to get in and get going. When I first came here, I was hoping to see something like, you actually play your character out, but don’t really do anything to the other characters. Basically, I post something like this:

Fereno finally worked up the nerve to enter the cavern. He cautiously looked in, and began to take steps towards the darkness ahead. Out of nowhere, a small, ugly fellow jumped out and startled Fereno. He drew his sword and demanded “who are you”

Then shadow(not to say your small and ugly….well maybe:)) posts

Grient calmly pushed the warriors sword away and told him “you should be careful who you draw your sword at, wouldn’t want to get yourself in a bunch of trouble”.

Then I post

Fereno jerked his sword at Grient, “I said who are you”

I think you get the point. But I found what the mill is at today. I didn’t like it too much, but I dealt with it because I couldn’t get this anywhere else. But most wont deal with it, so we need to change the format we use to get more people here. So to get more people here, first we need advertising. Maybe work a deal out where, “we put your banner on our site and you put our banner on your site” with some major fantasy realated sites. For example, a major dungeons and dragons site, or perhaps tolkien.net. Another thing that I found hard was getting something started. After reading a few posts, I realized how long my posts would have to be, and I didn’t know when to start. So we should definitely change the format to a couple of short paragraphs, with open ends to allow more people to jump in on the story.
Another thing that gave me setbacks is all the rules that I had to follow. Not ones like, no overly powerful characters, but ones that said don’t make a character do something he wouldn’t normally do without permission from the owner. I knew nothing about what the characters I was rping with were like, causing some frustration So I tried to avoid this by leaving my posts open ended. I didn’t get replies, which gave me more frustration. so we need to not just change the rules, but also make it easier to get a story going. The rules part can only change if the format changes, again I mention this. The format needs to be easy to use, and allow newbies to the mill the chance to rp, while still allowing you to have fun with it, etc, without making a character do what he normally wouldn’t do. So this format would not just be a couple of short paragraphs with loose ends for anybody to jump in at, but it would be a format that would allow newbies to jump in without fear of making elrohir cast a fireball when he actually knows no magic.(just an example, elrohir[the character] knew some magic, im sure). So the format I have above needs to be moded a bit. So heres another try at the format, using the short story I have above.

I post this, with some obvious loose ends to work with for a newbie to get his/her character, or for someone to get another character:

Fereno finally worked up the nerve to enter the cavern. He cautiously looked in, and began to take steps towards the darkness ahead. Out of nowhere, a small, ugly fellow jumped out and startled Fereno. He drew his sword and demanded “who are you”

The little fellow calmly pushed the warriors sword away and told him “you should be careful who you draw your sword at, wouldn’t want to get yourself in a bunch of trouble, now would ya?”.

Fereno jerked his sword at him, and said “I said who are you”

There could probably be more, but im trying to compress this a bunch.
Then shadow, deciding he wants his new character to be the short and ugly fellow, replies:

Grient knew that if he didn’t say something to this warrior soon, he would find the sword he just pushed away in his side, so he choked up “Im grient, who are you”

The warrior quickly replied “that doesn’t matter, what are you doing here?”

Grient felt a bit of courage and, while pushing the sword away again, chimed up “you know, if anything, I should have a sword at YOUR throat. YOU are the one who just trespassed in MY home. So you should probably but that ungodly weapon away and tell me who YOU are and what YOU want.”

Again, his post would most likely be longer, but im trying to make this short, without getting to far off track.

Ok, this is good, but what about making another persons character do something it shouldn’t, and what if you don’t like any of the characters other people are leaving open for someone to start with?

Well to answer the first, we need to keep bios of all the current characters on the homepage. Someone that knows HTML and has the free time should do it. I probably have the free time, but I don’t know that damned code. To create a new character, simply e-mail the bio, which describes the character’s personality, how he looks, how he fights, what he knows how to do, etc. to the designated person. They will then put it up on the homepage. Hmmm…..i got an idea to make it easier to get someone to do it, and id do it if you do this. Put a posting script on the homepage with a password you need to have to post. On this, you have complete control of editing, posting, deleting, moving, etc. Theres a “forum” for the current characters, for the old characters, for the current stories, and for the FAQs and other helpful things for newbies. When someone wants a new character, he/she simply e-mails the bio to the designated person, and within a day or two, the bio should be up in the proper forum. You don’t have to immediately have a bio though, like if you just got this character, and your not sure what hes like yet, or you want to keep him mysterious, you simply send what you do know, and let them know that you will have a finished bio eventually. And whenever it is decided that a character dies, etc, the designated person gets an e-mail from the characters owner and just moves it to the old characters forum. The current stories forum, I take back, I have a better idea. Put the FAQ forum I say keep. Anytime someone can create a FAQ and send it to the designated person, and it will be put up in the FAQ forum on the homepage. Of course, this designated person can say, this character is to powerful etc and reply saying what needs to be changed for it to be accepted. And if the FAQ is no good, or basically the same as another one already up, the designated person would just take anything, if any, that isnt already up and is helpful, and put it up, and reply saying what was put up and what wasn’t.

The only other problem I see keeping new people from coming is the history is so strictly followed. Remember, just because no gods have effected a plane, doesn’t mean that a god can’t effect it. So even if theres never been a centaur on phaema, accept the fact that a deer raped some poor girl(or maybe shadow really likes deer….j/k…..hehe). Basically, we need to be able to change the forum as it needs it, so the forum doenst get into a rut again and we have to do something so drastic.

Ok, theres one more problem that I see, and that’s bringing back things that have happen very recently. For example, I tried to start another storyline on the black bastion and the first evil. I did not know how long ago in phaeman history the original occurred, and figured that it was a while ago. I was pretty wrong. But weve solved this by dating our posts. Theres still a few things that need to be changed. The dating needs to be like this, if your in the same storyline, your pretty much on the same day. If you post about something that was a week ago in game time, then it wont effect anything that already happen. But if your storyline is completely different then another, its ok to be a few weeks behind the other storyline. But there shouldn’t be definite stories. I mean, if a character is in the BIS, then he can still interact with another character in RBS. (just examples, as usually). And game time should be displayed on the front page of the mill and the homepage. Basically the year and maybe the month to help out. And of course history can be kept about what happen in the past in the world of as long as its all dated so we know when it was.(maybe this could be the stories forum the non HTML knowing RPM updater that I decided to say we didn’t need, ok we need it. Just so the history can be continually updated).

Ok, that pretty much solves the problem of attracting new people. The next problem I see is things that are supposed to be pretty descriptive on what we should do are vague, What I mean is that we are vague about the concepts we use. We just say we are based loosely on M:TG, but we don’t say what exactly we use. We need to get what exactly we use. Which, all really use is some of the spells, the mana concept, and a modified version of their planeswalking concept. Which, I think we need to modify the planeswalking concept. The planes “float” around like in M:TG. A planeswalker can only pass through this inbetween planes for so long because of the intense mana. The stronger the planeswalker, the longer her/she can be in this area of intense mana. If our new world is far enough from other planes, it would be very rare that a planeswalker would come to it, because most wouldn’t survive the trip. Of course, it may float close enough to another plane for weaker planeswalkers to traverse. This leaves us with many options, in case we need a planeswalker for something. And remember, planeswalkers can get stronger. If, for example, urza was the strongest, and couldn’t get to our world, in a year or 2(game time) he might have the strength to do it. Once you get to a world, you are very drained, especially if it was a longer trip. Everything else is fine, as long as we remember that, if this was related to M:TG, we are the cards. We are the warriors, the elves, and the monsters. Our spells may or may not be more powerful then a planeswalker’s. Planeswalker means that you can traverse to different planes, not that your powerful. But, most likely, a planeswalker will have considerable powers, because if you can toake the intense mana for any length of time at all, chances are, you can harness magic pretty well. Also, lets not limit ourselves to just the spells M:TG has. I like some of WD’s ideas, and I thing that something like mages mark, and plasma spells would work. I also have some ideas to help describe spells, etc, but ill talk about that on a different post.

The last thing that I see wrong is that no one has enough time. This is because they have to write “chapters in a story”. If we just write a paragraph or 2 at a time, most people would have the time to do it. But If we get to short, then it would take forever to finish stories. But the format I have above I believe would work. This format solves another problem too. The first time I was here, I tried to interact with KAATN. Well, I didn’t know anything about the guild, so I figured that after I knocked on the door, I would just wait until someone posted with them answering the door. I realized that no one probably would, so I created a new character as I didn’t know who was there. Of course, this new character didn’t go so well with elro because he just popped out of nowhere into KAATN(there was a few other things wrong, but that’s not the point). But with this format, we can just knock on the door at the end of our post, and wait for someone to answer. The perhaps sage advisor could post(well, shadow as him) answering the door, and so forth. This will give us some extremely short posts, but only when we need them. Otherwise, a paragraph or 2 will seem to be the best.

Well, im done trying to solve the mill’s problems. Whether or not you guys use any of this is up to you.

BTW, if you do the forum thing on the RPMHP, ill gladly put the bios and current stories up there, etc…

By Elrohir (Elrohir) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 10:49 pm:

I could sit here and tell you everything that I think is unfeasible about your plans. I would do so gladly. I could explain in so much depth and detail it would make you sick to your stomach and wish you hadn't posted them. I would feel "right" and "justified" to make those responses, basing that off of the massive amount of experience I have here, more than anyone else. If I tell you I think something won't work, it wouldn't be because I object to the idea, it would be because I have seen it before and know it didn't work the first time.

There, undeniably, is the ultimate truth of this place. Believe it or not, admit to it or not, but my word is law here. Shadow will object to that statement. But think a bit. My gigantic ego aside as much as it can be thrust (which isn't far), my very soul is wrapped around this mill. It's the dark corner of Beyond Dominia, which everyone ignores because they don't understand, don't know why Shadow doesn't just delete it.

Everything, back to the beginning of time (Phaeman) and before, was ultimately my doing. I've had the war of arguments against others about this, and there were many parts I have had little or no hand in. Every major shift was either by my own hand, or my hand was very near the core.

The Atog Wars - what started this all in the first place - I declared them. Guilds - I've been in two or three in my time. The shift to story-telling was again in large part due to my efforts to steer in that direction. Others followed suit. Tara, Genesis of Worlds, was intended to be truly Gowtara, a demon to destroy this place (after which, it was to be deleted). Two ideas converged of similar quality that were in the works independently. I had one half, and ended up with the mess when the two came together. Ultimately, I allowed this place to continue. From that point, it has remained unchanged, mostly because neither I nor anyone else has had the motivation to invoke change. I have again come and called for change, and some interest has been stirred again.

The Grip of Elrohir will never leave Phaema.

To rid this curse from Phaema is impossible. I am that which stifles this place. This place could grow, if I did not impose such an iron grip. But this place is now as an extension of me. Even the names Phaema and Role Playing Mill were mine. No matter where you turn, there my influence is. Even the homepage is...hosted by my own site.

What we have, cannot be changed. I have set too many precedents, most of which are daunting for new people to dive into. My wish to change this place is not to try to find "solutions" which will bring life back to Phaema. Nothing can fix this place, for the flaws are intrinsic to the system. The flaws are my own.

"All right, Elrohir, you're starting to ramble incessantly. What's yer point?"

Stop it. Now. Do not play in my world any longer. Do not deny that this place is mine; I have already established my reasons earlier. Your characters are free to leave as you will.

Shadow: I would appreciate if you would leave your "end of the world" story alone. I would like to end Phaema's reign my own way. I beg that much. I will incorporate as many of your ideas as I can, and if you have any unwritten (or unposted) material that can help, I urge you to send it to me. Delete this mill, and post (or repost) this message in a new one: The Role Playing Mill Reconstruction Forum. There, let the seeds of a new RPM be sown, without my influence. It is my solemn vow to have no impact in the new creation. I will post an "end of Phaema" story there for those who want to know what happens. I will maintain the current RPMHP at my site for my own nostalgia and anyone who chooses to go there, but it will not be concerned with the new RPM (if that even remains the name) nor will I maintain one for it. I think this is the drastic choice that needs to be done, and needs to be done now.

Let this be Elrohir's last powertrip.

By Detox on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 11:11 pm:

Life goes on...

By Burn, the Keeper of the Flame (Fereno) on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 01:31 pm:

if we really need a whole new mill to get this going, then i guess thats what it takes. And i want really planning anything, i was making as many suggestions as i could. Id really like to see you play a part in the new world/mill (if it does happen). At least just have a character and RP with everyone else.

By ETP on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 02:34 am:

I am not very familiar with this forum, so i will assume that Elrohir is a pleasant person with an odd sense of humour that i would get if i were to be a regular, and not, as it seems, the kind of person who would make people like me not want to take part in this roleplaying mill.

By Shadow (Shadow) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 05:33 pm:

Okay, Jake, I understand your e-mail a bit more now (took me a bit to find this post).


You're right, I will disagree with you. The only time your word has ever been law here is when the place is empty (or filled with phantoms). Do you know why? Because this place still exists within the same rules as the rest of Beyond Dominia. It is a public posting forum. Any post not violating the meager BD posting rules will remain here as long as any other. Any number of people may disavow or ignore it, but the post will be made, and will exist with its own right.

So, no. I'm finishing my story. I'll delete the RPM and make something new, but not yet. I'm finishing it my way. You can totally ignore me and finish it your way too, for all I care, but the story means something to me as well. You might not believe it, but it does. Why do you think I still hang around this desolate place? It's not just a remniscient thing with me, I care about the world, I care about my characters, and I care about my story.

No action on your part can change my mind.

By Elrohir (Elrohir) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 07:46 pm:

Actually, I half didn't mind if you said no. I already expected it. I was just trying to goad you into finishing or at least continuing your stuff, because frankly, it's holding me up quite a bit since I'm not sure where your characters are and that impedes my ability to jump in. I do think that once this story is done, though, the mill needs to be deleted (or at least, halt all ability to post in this mill, and open up a new one (or side one within this mill) and a "reconstructive forum" should be set up. Everything about the current rules and history of this place stifles creation, and thats what a lot of people seem to want. The RPM is a conglomeration of places and ideas that meant a lot to people 5 years ago; it's relatively meaningless to all but one or two now. They have nothing that THEY can claim they introduced to this place. Sure there were stories written and quite good ones at that, but it's been lacking...something. That something is the familiarity people have with things they've created themselves. No one here save you and I, really, had a chance to create anything more than a PC. The world, the situations, everything was already shaped by things they had no control over. I'm proposing to give them that chance by wiping the slate clean. Look around us, Seth. We are two bickering, doddering "masters of the universe." Our individual conflicts thrust everyone to the side and leave them wondering at the fate of the mill. We need to come to an agreement, and do so quickly. Nothing is left here now.

Something can rise from the ashes we create. But it will take work, and motivation, and people interested in the project. My secondary motive for wanting a "reconstructive" mill is to see how many people actually care enough to have ideas. I know WD does. But who else? As much as I want to have a hand in a new world, I fear what I may become simply because of my past history here, and what problems my influence may create. Taking me out, who else is left with the motivation and drive do continue? I don't know. I'm hoping there's a lot waiting in the wings. I'm at my wit's end here and simply want what's best for this place. My belief is that what we have, while treasured, is not the way it should be.

By WD on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 05:15 am:

Powertrip or not, every universe needs a universal rules, If the rules are a living person, so be it, any universe is capeable of spreading beyond the rules unless the rules are dead, and for some reason I suspect they arent :)

Some people cry change, one of them is me, and I use every trick in the book (at least them I know of) to gain influence, because thats whats its about when the universe is guided by a sentient being, If god truly is, wouldnt he be subject to favor the most interesting persons? In the bilical stories he actually does, He seems to like to pester his most insistant beleivers.

In retrospect if you follow god you subject to him, and god may be abusive (dont know about you el :))

so, if you want something to be done, you must influence, what could be harder than influencing god? what could possibly interest him enough to say YES THATS IT LETS HAVE THIS RAIN OF DESTRUCTION AND THEN A WORLD WITHOUT EVIL...

Along the project god returned to his former state, because evil is still out there even though god has tried this way several times.

Does anyone detect the pattern?

It is sad to say, but in the eyes of elrohir the god we all come in perspective of good/evil and for some reason he has evil invading his world, this may be for some unknown reasons.

If I were to take a guess it should be that elrohir is studying humanity and its imagination.

For all I know he could be an alien that has logged onto earth and is now studying our deepest (oh well almost deepest) fantasies because his own civilisation has no such thing.

Influence influence influence...

Elrohir the god is perhaps the most important person to influence, if he really is the god he claims to be, but since he is way back I tend to beleive, also because I find that beleif fascinating.

People wanting influence for a change of thinking patterns have a higher chance to influence each other than one who is sattisfied with his way of thinking, Im pretty versatile since I want to change my views of the world in any existing possible way as long as evolution is a part of it and I stay true to the concept of evolution, evolution is my true god, not elrohir (sorry to spit on you el...)

I have never been a person that influences my surroundings Im to unaggressive but on the net the only influence is words, and words I have.

If I knew enough about computers I could actually manipulate a lot more than I do, some have noticed that I like to post as multiple personalities this is a way to influence but I do not care for that so much as others so I do not camouflage my posts by timeintervals, so most of the time my other personalities are likely to have read my posts a few seconds after they got posted and then they respond to them...

Like elrohir I tend to get to a point where I just ramble, its because I forget how I planned to tell you the point of this post because I get caugth up in whinning.


To influence god you must know his motives or at least have guessed them.

Elrohir you have motives that you have camouflaged as SENTIMENTALITY...

Want to share any motives with us or do you like the way you think already?

Very Wicked darkman...

By Burn, the Keeper of the Flame (Fereno) on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 04:04 pm:

ill help with whatever i can to get this project of sorts going. just drop me an e-mail if i havent been here in a bit r***e@a***l.com

By Detox on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 02:08 am:

Hm. I would like to be a part of a new mill. I missed my chance to be in the old one 4 years ago. But I don't know if I have to time to partake in a new one. I have many things I do during my online hours, and they seem to grow each time I get on. Soon, I hope to get a job, that too will take away my time, almost all of it. But I shall see. We shall see. I might join in the fun of a new mill.

By Burn, the Keeper of the Flame (Fereno) on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 09:03 pm:

if were gonna do this we need the reconstruction board setup ASAP. that way we can get more ideas on there, AND attract new people. they think, new forum, eh....lets check this out. so elro or shadow or anyone else that has the authority to do it, hurry please.

By Elrohir (Elrohir) on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 10:16 pm:

Don't think I haven't tried. Since I'm not staff anymore I don't have the authority, and Shadow's been pretty silent of late.

By Burn, the Keeper of the Flame (Fereno) on Saturday, June 16, 2001 - 01:51 pm:

you dont have the authority? thats pretty surprising....i missed more then i thought when i lost the net

By Elrohir (Elrohir) on Saturday, June 16, 2001 - 02:20 pm:

Simply put, a situation arose where it was no longer prudent that I have the authority to maintain.

By Torlax on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 01:11 am:

You tell 'em Elrohir. Last time a Mill got deleted it was kinda funny playing around on the old one. Wish I could remember who actually made the last post...

Idler Extraordinaire
Player of a Hundred Characters
Still too busy to run a story

By Elrohir (Elrohir) on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 05:26 am:

That was me, because then I promptly deleted the whole thing. :) I don't remember what it said though. Probably "Official Last Post of the War Mill" or something like that.

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