gamesituation problem...

Beyond Dominia: The Rules Mill: gamesituation problem...

By demonlich on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 06:25 pm:


I have enough critters to kill opponent this turn,
his critters are tapped and he can kill me next turn...

he has two icy manipulators but I have vitalise.

according to the rules in these days please tell if my opponent or I win...

By Serra (Serra) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 06:48 pm:

i assume that if he can use his Icy to tap 2 of yer critters, you wont be able to kill him

it could go either way depending on what happens

you will receive priority first after "beginning of combat" triggers go on the stack (if any)...if you Vitalise and he responds with Icys, the Icys will resolve first, then the Vitalise will untap yer critters and you will attack for the win...but he could always wait for the Vitalise to resolve...then start a new stack with the Icys, leaving 2 of yer critters tapped

there are a few other variations as well...there is no clear cut could always wait to see if he Icys, then Vitalise....but it's basically a game of chicken.

By François Laroche on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 07:16 pm:

Untap all creatures you control.

There's no chicken game here.

You enter your combat phase. If your opponent does nothing during the beginning of combat step, you attack with all your creatures and you win.

If your opponent taps 2 of your creatures, you wait for that to resolve. Then, always in the beginning of combat step, you play your Vitalize. You attack with all your creatures and you win.

By WestWycke, the Lexicologist (Westwycke) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:27 pm:

Missed one, Francois.

What happens if your opponent uses one Icy to tap your best creature, and is now able to survive?

If you Vitalize, opponent lets it resolve, then uses the other Icy to tap the creature again.

The answer depends on, can you kill him without your best creature attacking, as that is what you would have to face against a good player.

Another thought, could you instead use Vitalize during opponents turn to stave off losing? This could make a difference in strategy.

By François Laroche on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 01:37 pm:

Yeah, effectivly...

Lesson learned: next time, I'll just ask more details before answering.

So, what are the creatures controlled by both players and what are the life totals (assuming no card in and and no other permanent can influence combat or life totals)?

By Rakso, Patriarch & Rules Ayatollah (Rakso) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 08:59 am:

Actually, it depends if he expects the Vitalize.

He has to tap the attackers before you declare them as attackers.

If he does it the normal way and taps two attackers before you declare attackers, you Vitalize for the win.

If he expects it and uses only one Icy, you attack, then Vitalize in his turn to block or chump block, then kill him next turn if you can.

By LordLamneth on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 10:49 am:


This has been a problem since Day 1. Whenever it comes to fast effects and declaration of attacking creatures, no one ever wants to believe that their ruling is wrong. Here it is in a nutshell: Your opponent has to tap whatever creatures they don't want you attacking with first; it's too late once you have declared attackers.

Here's some other gamesituation problems that drive me insane!

I attack with a 2/2. My opponent blocks with a 4/4. I then play Gerrard's Command.

Gerrard's Command
Untap target creature. It gets +3/+3 until end of turn.

And, of course, what's the first thing my opponent yells out?

"That removes it from combat!"

NO, NO, NO it doesn't! It's not a Maze of Ith. Hell, Maze of Ith doesn't even remove it from combat! It just stops it from dealing or receiving damage.

Anybody here ever been hit with a 7-point Pestilence while your opponent used a COP: Black once? Well, if you have, you got cheated :(. There's no such thing as a multi-point Pestilence. There are only little-teeny-tiny-one-pointers that have to be prevented each time.

Ever have someone use Regrowth on the creature you Swords to Plowshares'd? How about a GGG triple Rancor you weren't even given a chance to respond to? Anybody got any others?


By Rakso, Patriarch & Rules Ayatollah (Rakso) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 11:29 am:

#1 most common: Scrub misreads Abyss + Morphling

By Serra (Serra) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:22 pm:

Here's my famous story...some almighty Necro player once cheated me out of a semifinal tourney victory by telling me that the StP I tried to use on his Black Knight went to the grave.

By Tristal on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 04:33 pm:

People in my area keep trying to say that when removing something from the game (Through, say, StP) puts the creature in the graveyard for an instant before it goes RFG (To use Rector's abil, etc). It's very disturbing when a lot of people I respect that play T1 would make such an idiotic error.

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