A few "techy" questions...

Beyond Dominia: The Rules Mill: A few "techy" questions...

By SpectralShift on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 08:04 pm:

Goblin spy reveals the top card of your library... When you stroke yourself for more than one, does your opponent get to see each card as you draw it?

According to rule;

418.4a A continuous effect generated by a static ability of a permanent isn't "locked in"; it
applies at any given moment to whatever its text indicates.

but it seems to me an effect like prosperity/stroke is resolved in its entirety.


Opalesence and Nefarious liche are in play. The other player repulses nefarious liche with no cards in his library...

Does it end in a draw?

(The no cards is a state-based effect: 420.5g A player who was required to draw more cards than were in his or her library loses the


And just to check... Does Phrexian Tyranny's effect go on the stack? (IE: If i stroke myself with tyrany out, do i get a chance to cast instants/use abilities before the damage is dealt to me?).

By wiseguy on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 10:09 pm:

all the cards are drawn at once, not one at a time, so they are not revealed.

in the second case, the active player choses who wins and who loses because he or she decides the order in which the two loss conditions are put on the stack.

By Serra (Serra) on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 10:22 pm:

sorry wiseguy, yer wrong on both accounts

Goblin Spy will cause all cards to be revealed before they are drawn, even with a multi draw effect.

In case 2, the Repulse player is required to draw a card (and loses) before the Liches death ability goes on the stack.

Case 3, you are correct Spectral...let's say you Stroke for 4...four triggers of 2 damage will go on the stack, which you can respond to before they resolve.

By SpectralShift on Sunday, December 09, 2001 - 11:55 pm:

Well, liches death ability never does on the stack, as I understand it. The effect that states you lose is immediate -- but does it compare to a state based effect, which is resolved only when someone gets priority?

Because you definately don't get priority before you lose when liche leaves play -- you lose soon as someone gets priority, same as with lich...

By Gzeiger (Gzeiger) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 02:45 am:

That isn't true of Lich, though. Failure to draw a card when required makes you lose. This is a state-based effect, and you lose the game the next time a player would receive priority.

Lich's ability is not a state-based effect, it is a triggered ability (a triggered ability begins with the word "when," "whenever" or "at") and it goes on the stack.

In the situation described, Repulse resolves, bouncing Lich and asking the player to draw a card. He can't, so when Repulse is done resolving, state-based effects are checked. Repulse's caster loses the game. If there had been a card for him to draw, Lich's ability would trigger and go on the stack and the active player would get priority at this time. Hoowever the game is already over so that doesn't happen.

By Matt the Great (Matt) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 07:19 pm:

"Goblin Spy will cause all cards to be revealed before they are drawn, even with a multi draw effect."

Basically, you're saying that "draw X cards" reads like "take the top card of your library and put it in your hand. Repeat this X-1 times" instead of "Take the top X cards of your library and put them into your hand".

Where in the rules might I find this?

By Serra (Serra) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 12:13 am:

Under "Draw":

G.15.Ruling.2 - If you are required to draw more than one card due to a
single action, the draws happen in sequence. For example, "draw 3 cards"
works just like "Draw a card. Draw a card. Draw a card."
[Jackson 1999/12/07] The result of this is that replacement effects which
affect the drawing of cards are applied one draw at a time. For example,
with Abundance, you choose how to use it before each card. And with
Field of Dreams, each and every card is face up along the way.
[Jackson 1999/12/07]

And specifically, under "Goblin Spy":

If you draw multiple cards, you need to reveal each one before you draw them. [Invasion FAQ 2000/10/03]

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