Radiate and spells that can target multiple card types...

Beyond Dominia: The Rules Mill: Radiate and spells that can target multiple card types...

By Havraen1 on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 01:02 am:

Greetings fellow Dominians. This is my first thread initiation on the site, and while I feel I am fairly strong on rulings, I do not consider myself an expert. I thank my MTG stars that sites like BDominia and Chrystal Keep exist. And I would like to add that, in the short time I have been visiting BDominia, I have found this site to be very insightful and also very well run...my thanks to all involved.

My friends and I all share a passion for finding ways to abuse card combos in casual play, and we all agree that Radiate offers some serious potential. For those of you who have not viewed the Torment Spoiler yet, Radiate reads as follows:

R, Instant, 3RR
Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player. For each other permanent or player that spell could target, put a copy of the spell onto the stack. Each copy targets a different one of those permanents and players.

So what happens with Pillage, Disenchant, Lightning Bolt, any of the Charm spells (Crosis' Charm for example) or any other instant or sorcery where there are options on the type of card and/or player to target?

For example, let's say I target a land with Pillage and then Radiate. The way the spell reads, it seems to me that artifacts would be affected as well as lands if the Radiate resolves...the condition of targeting a single permanent is met, but the potential targets for the Pillage are both lands and artifacts. So, although I have targeted a land with my Pillage, all artifacts in play could also be targeted and are therefore vulnerable.

Am I correct in thinking that all artifacts and lands are then destroyed?

Oh Mr. Guru, please find my reasoning sound so that the abuse may begin!!!


By Tracer Bullet, the DanDan Man (Tracer) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 01:55 am:

With the first three cards, all applicable targets will be applied. In other words, Pillage will target all lands and all artifacts, Lightning Bolt will target all players and creatures, and Disenchant will target all Artifacts and Enchantments. The Charms are different however. Each Charm is an example of a modular spell; that is, they say choose one. Whenever a spell of this type is cast, you have to choose one of the options, and then the other options were as if they didn't exist. Thus, if you were to try and destroy Morphling with Red Elemental Blast, all blue permenants in play would be targeted, but not any blue spells on the stack.

By Rakso, Patriarch & Rules Ayatollah (Rakso) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 08:12 am:

I think that with the modular spells, you get different choices for each fork, like Alongi said on magicthegathering.com

By François Laroche on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 09:02 am:

Rakso: no, it copies the mode of the spell. If Alongi said that, he's wrong.

From the Torment FAQ:

* Radiate can't change anything about the copies of the spell. They're all exactly like the original, except they target different things. It doesn't change the mode of a spell (modal spells start with "Choose one -- ") for any of the copies. If a kicker cost was paid for the original spell, the copies of the spell are also considered to have had the kicker paid for them. The same is also true for buyback and flashback, though these two abilities can be ignored. (The copies aren't spell cards, so they can't be put into your hand or removed from the game after they resolve.)

By Tristal on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 10:30 am:

The most abusive combos I've seen so far with it are Ice and Prophetic Bolt.

By WestWycke, the Lexicologist (Westwycke) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 11:04 am:

This is being discussed in the Rumor Mill too.

Suggestions for Radiate include:
Spinal Embrace
Aether Mutation
Temporal Spring

By Havraen1 on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 12:39 pm:


Thanks for pointing out the distinction on the Charms...had not thought of that. And thanks to Francois for confirmation on the ruling for mode of the spells...

By Crovax on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 02:50 pm:

Temporal Spring! OH MY GOODNESS!
Also, the question has been put to me, "Can a Radiate be Miraried?"
The answer is yes, as long as you choose a spell that targets permanents or players. You can have every creature take 1 Damage From an Illuminate and draw a card for each one - twice.

By havraen1 on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 03:29 pm:

Hmmm...the FAQ referenced by Francois also has this to say...

"You don't have to pay any costs or make any other choices -- Radiate copies all the costs and choices of the original spell. All the copies will resolve before the original spell does."

The wording "costs and choices of the original spell" indicates that once I choose a land for the Pillage...lands become the only affected permanents.

I think that maybe Tracer's comment and my original reasoning are inaccurate...darn! That will shoot down some of my ideas on abusing this card.

This is the link to the FAQ: http://www.mtgnews.com/story/919/1/1/1/

By François Laroche on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 09:38 pm:

No. Pillage isn't modal.

It can target a land or an artifact.

Radiate will make copies to destroy every artifact and land.

If Pillage was worded: Choose one - Destroy target artifact or Destroy target land, it would be modal and thus you would not be able to change it.

But, as it is, it's not. It just destroy something that has to be either artifact or land.

By Liam (Liam) on Saturday, January 26, 2002 - 08:35 pm:

Radiate puts a copy on the stack for every player or permanent the spell ::could:: target.

Pillage can target an Artifact or land, so the Radiate copies will target every permanent that is an arifact or land.

The Charms go on the stack only after you have chosen, so funeral charm chosen to discard will only read
"target player discards a card"
by the time it hits the stack, so the Radiate copies will only be able to target players, and can only make them discard a card.

Add a Message

This is a public posting area. If you do not have an account, enter your full name into the "Username" box and leave the "Password" box empty. Your e-mail address is optional.