Proxy Tournaments

Beyond Dominia: The Rumor Mill: Proxy Tournaments

By Zherbus (Zherbus) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 10:36 am:

Theres going to be a T1 Proxy tournament in my area in a month, where you are allowed to proxy the P10. Every thing else you would be required to own.

The point is to reinvigorate interest in T1, and to also show that T1 isnt about 2-4 turn games as some think. Of course the tournament isnt going to be sanctioned, but there is going to be a decent prize and if this takes off there will be a mox tournament, and once people get a better feel for it, it will turn to a true T1 tourny.

I was wondering what people thought of the idea of a proxy tournament for this kind of reason? If you disagree with it, how do you justify the difference between real life and apprentice?

By Matt Caplan (Caplan) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 02:04 pm:

By the way, what is your area?
I think that it is a wonderful idea - it allows most anyone to experience T1 and judge it for themselves, not read about Lotus-Channel-Torch BS.
If there was enough interest in my area (New Orleans), I would try to talk some local storeowners into running similar tournaments.

By Zherbus (Zherbus) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 02:15 pm:

Im in New Hampshire. The tournament is in concord ( I know theres a ton of MASS people on this board) and the first tournament will be for a mana drain. Then the next one will be for a pearl I believe. Entry fee is $5 for Drain tourny, and $10 for the mox tourny. There should be one every month if the turn outs are nice. I expect about 15-20 players. This particular store runs a wierd T1 Variant on fridays, where basically P10, and some other random abnormailitys arent allowed, so there should be an interest in the real deal format.

I think its an awesome idea, plus it allows me to use my power cards since the place I used to play locally no longer runs tournaments. :/

By Gzeiger (Gzeiger) on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 11:42 pm:

I've talked my local shop into doing this also. However, we allow proxies of any card (we try to discourage more than 15-20 proxies per deck, and insist that a copy of the card's text be available).

I would worry that proxying only the power cards may lead to a rather different environment than real Type 1, and may actually be conducive to 3-4 turn kills. The cards that go into an Academy deck, for example, are mostly worthless (being restricted here and banned in every other format) and many are recent. On the other hand, control decks are still unattainable, as Mana Drain and Force of Will are the next cards that Type 2 and younger/casual players are unlikely to own. On the other hand, nobody is very likely to think of that, and some of the Academy cards like Wheel of Fortune and Candelabra are still difficult to find.

Anyway, I'm all for the unlimited use of proxies, and I show up to the tournaments without any in my own deck, whatever that's worth.

By Andy T. on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 03:13 am:

I would LOVE to be in that tournament. However, I have a suggestion...a "proxy list" of very hard to find/pricy cards wich WOULD be allowed to be proxied and played with.

Possibly all proxies should be in a color-backed plastic sleeve and should be actual color printed images of the real cards. This way, anyone not familiar with certain cards can read them in "real time", not having to refer to a written explanation. I'm talking about photocopied proxies such as can be printed out from . These could even be printed out by the hosting store at almost no cost to anyone...

I agree wholeheartedly with this idea of a tournament. If MTG is to be an ever-changing game...then why not include ALL cards printed in the cardpool ( I'll not get into my thoughts on this subject...)?

I would even consider the possibility of entirely proxied decks if they are a GOOD, LEGIBLE, COLOR proxy with an actual card behind (for rigidity)in a plastic sleeve as described.

Or, maybe only allow cards over a given value to be proxied...$75.00, $100.00, $15.00(more fair for newer, younger, or those of us more finacially challenged)

Maybe only the P9 and Dual lands...what do you think?

If you live within driving distance of Baton Rouge and like this idea e-mail me...

Let us know how the tourny goes...

Andy T.

By Zherbus (Zherbus) on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 01:26 pm:

Well all cards have to be played in colored sleeves. As for other cards being proxied, most of the people there have most of the power rares like abyss, drains, etc. Though the next one for a mox will probably 10 proxies/deck...or something like that.

By Erik (Erik) on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 08:24 pm:

In my town we regularly hold proxy tournaments and they are always a blast. We encourage the use of colored sleeves and printed proxies, but if anyone wants to go with paper-pieces that's ok. If someone plays with cards that are not usually seen they should bring some form of reference with them to avoid confusion. In the beginning everyone played keeper lookalikes just to try the power, but now you never know what strange decks might show up. Suprise value increases when everyone has an unlimited card pool, and since we have no entry fee and very modest prices (a booster or something) everyone tries to play an original deck. So I deeply encourage the concept of proxy tourneys, just be prepared to face angry local card-store owners ;)

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Tuesday, January 15, 2002 - 10:19 pm:

I really like the idea. I'd go with proxying any card, but make sure it's a legible photocopy (at the very least). I hate it when people just write on their land, I'd even be willing to provide scans and/or copies if such a thing ever took off in my area. I know some store owners . . . I should see what support I can dredge up.

Speaking of proxies, and this gets a little more complicated, I've recently enjoyed making my own cards that are functionally identical to existing cards. Now I've got "Foresight of Hel" (with a weird picture of Bjork, no Brittney Spears for me! :) ) in place of my Vampiric Tutors, and I made a new version of Pine Barrens (the crappy tap-painland) that has the same artwork, but works just like a Bayou.

Why would I do such things? Well, I already own the real cards, and I like to pretend like I have some sway over the types of cards I play with. Ironically, I think Pine Barrens is the coolest looking G/B dual land, with the coolest name, but unfortunately it's also the crappiest to play with. With the CCGMaker, instead of having to switch my Bayous between 3 different decks, I get to have some fun playing "what-if WotC made better cards."

I think that eventually it will be so easy to make quality proxies, WotC will have to develop a hologram or something to combat them. They aren't exactly rampant, because most people have been conditioned to view it as cheating. It was a brave new world when I discovered I could not only make my own cards, but also change the name and the artwork of existing cards. If everyone did that, I'd love magic twice as much, if not more. Then again, maybe I'm a little more creative and artisticly minded than the average player; where I see a need for a cooler name or better artwork, others are probably just trying to lower the casting cost . . .

Proxies will save magic!


By Zherbus (Zherbus) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 03:25 pm:

The second proxy tournament is going to be for a pearl I believe. The goal is to cycle a piece of power into the environment every week. This will allow people who collect enough power to go to other T1 tournaments and compete other places too.

By Elrond, the High Priest & Pokemon Slayer (Elrond) on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 06:00 pm:

Try allowing a player to proxy ten cards in their deck/sideboard rather than restricting it to the Power 10 only. That way, players can proxy dual lands if their deck needs them more than power.

By Zherbus (Zherbus) on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 02:12 pm:

Actually, after this first tournament. I've decided that proxys in general are allowed. Duals, P10, Mana drains, Moats, Floral spuzzems, I dont care. Reasoning for the first tournament was limited by the store owners bitching.

The prize for this first one (March 3rd) is a mana drain, with smaller prizes for 2nd-4th places.

One month later, when all cards can be proxied, the prize will be a Mox. ( either ruby, pearl, or sapphire.)

For anyone in the Mass/Maine/Vermont/New Hamphire area who wants info:

Concord Card
84 South State Street (Corner of Downing and South Street)
Concord, New Hampshire 03301

Email me if you have any questions about the actual tournament. n***t@o***

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 02:21 pm:

I'd love to go, but unfortunately I'm too far away. It's just cool to see someone actually doing proxy tournaments. I can't believe the store owners had complaints though . . . particularly when the cards being proxied could never be in sufficient stock, or even affordable, to the majority of attendents.

Keep up the good work. This is just the sort of thing that can help cause an upswing in Type1, even if it's just in your area.


By Andy T. on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 03:47 am:

Zherbus has just been added to my list of heroes...good work.

Andy T.---reprint duals---

By Zherbus (Zherbus) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 03:38 pm:


By BWM on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 03:44 pm:

are the prices proxy too???

By War Wolf (Warwolf) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 04:24 pm:

Where can you get CCGmaker?

By Rico Jones, Elfman Extraordinaire (Rico) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 04:59 pm:

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 05:08 pm:

It's at The funny thing is, it's only a demo . . . but a creative search through the program files will access the full version. Look for a file that's just random letters and delete it . . . but you didn't hear that from me. :)

The initial version from the CCGMAKER site doesn't have the correct borders (due to copyright), but you can get those from a different site and import them into the program. I can't remember the name of the site, but you can go to, look up links for magic programs, and pick Dante's Card Maker. It'll take you to the site that has the real magic mana symbols and backgrounds in a file called MAGIC.DAT. It takes a little bit of searching, but the program is well worth the effort. If you have a good printer, it's almost flawless.


By General Talon on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:58 pm:

What about tournaments of made-up cards? I had a deck of 43 made up cards and 17 lands. It was awesome.
Battle of Tears (3)WW
Sacrifice all creatures you control.
Each opponent loses 1 life for each
creature put into a graveyard in this

By Zedd on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 07:58 pm:

Do you know what the filename is called? I can't find it

By Rico Jones, Elfman Extraordinaire (Rico) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 08:28 pm:

I couldn't find it either so I just ponied up the ten dollars. I figured that supporting the software creators might encourage more great products in the future. Damn that program is great. The only problem is that I can't find a good quality scan of the Guay Serra so I'm gonna make the scan myself. Speaking of which, anybody own the Guay Serra? I'll buy it or trade for it. :)


By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 08:43 pm:

The file would be complete gibberish. asfhslgh.zdj or something similar. I figured it out by accident while playing around with dos and using the 'DIR' command to look in all the program directories. A friend of mine told me something about how he found the file w/o using dos, by showing all hidden files (or something). If I hadn't just stumbled across it, I'd have paid the $10 too. I noticed they have a version 1.4 now, so I wouldn't doubt it if it's got better security. I'm no hacker . . . more luck was involved than anything else. My honest advice if you can't find it . . . is just to pay. It's an awesome program and it's definitely no crime to support it for $10.


By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 08:48 pm:

You know, I haven't seen one of those Serras in years . . . I only remember that it had a lot of blue shading, and I think the angel was standing in the snow? I kind of remember thinking 'that's what the Serra from Ice Age would've looked like.' If you get a scan, I'd like a copy of it most definitely! There is a site that I've accessed through MTGNews . . . go to Magic Programs and then pick Dante's Card Maker. It's the same site that has the Magic.DAT for the CCGMAker. That guy has an FTP site of (I think) every card. Another place to check might be Magic Rarities. I can't remember the address, but it's got scans of tons of ultra-rare cards. The only problem might be that the Serra isn't really half as rare as most of the stuff on that site.

Hope this helps a little . . .


By Silver Dragon (Silverd) on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 09:19 pm:

That ought to help . . .


By pseudosoldier on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 10:48 pm:

And more specifically, he recently linked to a Japanese site focusing on Serra...

That should take you right to her.

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 12:51 am:

Undoubtedly the best Serra Art ever . . . Which is of course why it doesn't exist as a real card.

Well, at least until Rico and/or myself are done with it. :)

Which got me to thinking . . . wouldn't it be cool if they did entire sets by one artist? I'd buy into that, as long as it was an artist I liked.


By Silver Dragon (Silverd) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 07:23 am:

That picture is low quality when it is full sized. Try to find a different one. Maybe there is a better one somewhere in the actual rarities site.

By FFF on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 09:57 am:

In my area we all play proxy and ALL cards are proxied!


By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 09:46 pm:

Silver: I was afraid of that. I hadn't tried it yet . . . but it seemed kind of small. What we really need is a giant scan that can be cropped, even better would be a scan that's the exact size of a real card. Yeah, and while I'm at it, bring me the hope diamond. :)

Okay, okay, the koh-i-noor will do.

What's got into me . . . one day off and I'm a maniac!


By Superman on dope (Dope) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 03:52 pm:

Proxying is a great idea for local tourneys to promote T1 but I believe it has to be limited in some way, or people would stop buying cards altogether. The ten card proxy limit per deck rule seems like a fantastic idea, as limiting proxies to the P10 might force people with less cards into building suboptimal decks instead of proxying good decks where they only lack a few key cards.

By Rico Jones, Elfman Extraordinaire (Rico) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 05:53 pm:

I think that number should actually be a bit higher because many players can't afford dual lands and other expensive cards either. Maybe 16 proxies or so. That would be enough for P10, 1 set of duals or Mana Drains, and a couple of the other expensive Legends cards. Gosh I wish there were places to play Type 1 near my house (no car). You know, if things get really bad, I'll muster the cards for a Coalition Victory deck and play Type screw. I gotta find a place to play.

-Desperate Rico

By Zherbus (Zherbus) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 06:17 am:

Mostly, allowing power 10 makes alot of extended players able to compete at a full potential. THe only cards they wouldnt normally have are some Arabian, AQ, and legends rares. They way I see it, is if they can afford call of the herds they can afford any italian legends card.

By Andy T. on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 07:40 am:

We're trying to put together a Proxy type1 at a local store (Gonzales...outside Baton Rouge, LA) and if you live within driving distance and would like to come, email me. Prizes and entry fee will depend on number of entrants. So far it looks as though we may have about 6 people interested. The store owner will put up a booster box as the prize, split amoung the winners with the entery fee being the cost of the box split evenly amoung contestants(ie: 25 packs to first place, 7 packs to second, 4 packs to third...8 players with entry at $10.00, or 10 players with entry at $8.00, and so on).

Right now, the store's customer base is such that it's many younger teens who have graduated to MTG from Pokemon and have few cards or not much money to buy type1 rares, so it most likely will be an unlimited amount of proxies in decks. However, that's good for those of us who are still trying to build back up our collections that we sold off when we got out of MTG before (I understand that there are a lot of us). I'm excited to be able to introduce newer players to this format that will be MUCH more fun than type SCREW (as Rico so perfectly put it).

While I'm on that thought...I'm so 'friggin sick of reading on the official game site's webboard where all the younger type2 farts keep claimiing that type2 is more strategic and complicated to play, and (I laugh every time) CHEAPER than type1. So, they think they're playing a better format and becoming better players....hahahahhahhah.....

....Until I win with a type2 common deck against them...

Andy T.--reprint duals--

By Rico Jones, Elfman Extraordinaire (Rico) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:09 am:

Hmmmm. More strategic my ass. More boring is more like it. Type 1 is like professional level sports, every move counts.

Oh, by the way, I didn't invent 'Type Screw'. Either Henge Wolf or Puschkin did. I just picked it up from them. Gotta give credit where credit's due, no?


By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:51 pm:

I think we can credit Puschkin with that one. Although I've been guilty of using that euphemism myself. :)


By alienboy on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:08 am:

I went to Mtgnews and couldn't find "links for magic programs", or links of any kind. Would you mind telling me where on the page they are?

By Rico, Pursuer of the Guay Serra (Rico) on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 02:24 pm:

If you're looking for Dante's CCG Maker stuff here's the link:

First you'll have to download the CCG Maker itself. You can find that at (big surprise I know).

Hope that helps. The program will set you back ten bucks but it's really nifty for making proxies. Enjoy.


By Rico, Pursuer of the Guay Serra (Rico) on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 02:25 pm:

Oh, those links are at the bottom left hand side of the main page at MtGNews.


By Alienboy on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 07:36 pm:

Thank you.
But now I have another problem :(.
I click on the link to download the Magic.dat file, and it doesn't connect to the page. I tried going to the "backup" site and it says his briefcase is empty. Do you have to have the full version to download Mtg.dat?
If not, and anyone else has been having a similar problem, please post it.
Thank you,

By Rico, Pursuer of the Guay Serra (Rico) on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:08 pm:

Mtg.dat is just a file. You should be able to download it regardless of whether or not you have CCG Maker. However, to use the templates for colors other than green I believe that you have to have the full version. If his download isn't working and you really want the templates I can email them to you.


By alienboy on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:29 pm:

Yeah, I really would like those. Could you email them to me?

Thanks so much!!

By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 02:56 pm:

I love the idea of players, new and old, being able to explore different deck ideas in a way that will make them unpredictible by the other players in the metagame.

I have seen that way too often, this way its just about playskill and creativity rather then money playing such a key role!

Proxy tourneys would do just that, and take some of those "holier than thow" power players and turn them on their ear.

i would love to see a proxy tourney here in Kansas, even though I own the p9- or p10, whatever... would just like to see what the new blood would come up with.

How did any of you approach the tournament organizers about this, was it just talking to them about it or was the organizers ideas in th efirst place?


By Steve O'Connell (Zherbus) on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 08:35 am:

I am in pretty good with the store owner. He has not much going so I simply asked. After the first tournament a lot of misconceptions of the format were immediatly banished.

By Josh Karau on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 12:21 pm:

This is about the CCG Maker. I'm having the same problem with the MTG_1.4.dat file. It just won't download. The opperation always times out. If anyone has it, is there any way I could get you to email it to me? My email is Ka***a@o***


BTW, you guys have a great website. Later.

By Rico, Pursuer of the Guay Serra (Rico) on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 03:26 pm:

I could link you to my Yahoo briefcase if you were a Yahoo user. I can't send it because it's too big to attach. And I can't put in on my Geocities page for some reason. If you have a Yahoo account, email me at n***y@a***


By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 12:17 am:

I downloaded the most recent version of the CCGMaker to my friend's computer, but it wouldn't let me install . . . it said something about the installation software needed upgraded? What a pain . . . he has a color printer and I don't. :-\


By Rico, Pursuer of the Guay Serra (Rico) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 03:59 pm:

My friend has a really nice color printer. We're gonna make mad proxies tomorrow. :)

The templates are messed up on my 'puter and it crashes every time I try to change them. Dammit. What a pain. Oh well, I guess.

I've been proxying like a mad man lately. Half of most of my decks. So much fun.


By Erik (Erik) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 04:39 pm:

why not just use

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 10:36 pm:

Because CCGMaker let's you make your own. Add any picture file as artwork, and create your own text and card costs. It doesn't get any better . . . when it works anyway.


By Rico, Pursuer of the Guay Serra (Rico) on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 02:26 am:

Eh? When it works? Mine always works. Except for that little part about it not letting me change the templates. But my brother liked the program so much that he puchased another copy for the family computer. So I just use that. And man do I love it. I'm gonna have access to a nice printer tomorrow. What fun!


By AndyT (Andyt) on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 04:10 am:

Honestly...I feel like this proxy stuff may become more prominent in the future of casual magic. Myself and my friends abuse proxies in our games and we are having a blast doing so. We even got a local "Fiday Night Magic" shop to host a proxy type one tournament recently.

Anyway, a $70.00 printer from Wal-Mart, some typing paper, and card sleeves have given me any card in the game of magic to use.

Magic Online? What the hell is that? :)

Andy T.--reprint duals--

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 01:29 pm:

It works fine on my computer, I just don't have a good printer. I tried putting it on my friend's computer, but it wouldn't install (as I said above). I've thought about just saving the JPGs to a disk and printing them out that way, but I don't want to waste good paper printing one card at a time. I'll get it sooner or later, I'm sure. I've got Pine Barrens that function as Bayous, and Wisdom of Hel for Demonic Tutor! Not to mention a bunch more stuff I haven't looked at in awhile . . .


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