A question about printing processes
Beyond Dominia: The Rumor Mill: A question about printing processes

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By Rico Jones, Elfman Extraordinaire (Rico) on Saturday, January 26, 2002 - 09:00 pm:

Here's the scenario:

I bought two English Mana Drain cards on Ebay. They got here and I didn't notice anything strange at first (I wasn't looking for anything). Then I noticed that the back of the cards were very blurry (the cards were still in toploaders and penny sleeves). I took the cards out of the toploaders and the cards were still blurry. I mean they were really blurry, the mana symbols and the smaller text at the bottom of the cards was noticeably different than other magic cards. Not only were the cards already creased but they didn't pass the bend test. Figuring that the cards' failure to pass the bend test could be a result of the preexisting creases I decided to try the light test. I turned on my overhead lamp and held the cards up to it. I could read the text on the back of the cards and make out the details clearly. In other words, the cards were transparent. When I held up a real card for comparison the difference was amazing.

So I mail the guy and he claims they aren't fake. What evidence do I have? I tell him. He then tells me that:

"The copies you have were printed in the US (as you probably know they are usually printed in Belguim) as Cardemundi was already booked by another CCG company at the time. That explains the poorer quality of the cards (they were the non-watermarked boxes) and the "strange" feel/appearance of the cards."

My question is, is there any truth to this claim?

-Rico

By General Talon on Saturday, January 26, 2002 - 10:13 pm:

Well, I have opened many boosters of cards with blurry fronts that do not pass the light test but pass the bend test. A judge I know told me they are a form of misprint. It seems to be a fairly common occurrence, but I've never heard of this, unless like you say, the bend is from pre- creasing. I hate to just outright say you got screwed, but I'm afraid that's what it looks like.

By meh on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 08:58 am:

this looks fishy. if i were in your spot, i'd demand my money back, and if he didn't comply, get in touch with wizards' legal dept. (used to be a***a@i***i.com, but that was years and years ago. might be different now.)

By Gnu, the Lightbringer (Gnu) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 11:30 am:

Yeah, I would claim my money back... Even though I do not trust the bend test a lot (could talk about this for a long time!)

But start with contacting WotC to hear if the guys story is correct - if it is not, get your money back!

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 12:41 pm:

Those are definitely fake. Remember those moxes I mentioned in the other thread? That is precisely what I'm talking about. I've also seen an ancestral, a Guardian Beast, and a few others. They are transparent, slightly blurry, and they don't pass the bend test: classic counterfeits. What he told you is complete BS, Carta Mundi was the ONLY printer of magic cards until sometime around Mirage. In the case of Legends, they ran off a single print-run and refused to print to demand.

Rip that guy a new one! Despite my liking for 'fakes', I have no patience for those individuals who would try to pass them off as real during a monetary transaction.

Good luck, I hope you get your money back.

-HengeWolf

By Rico Jones, Elfman Extraordinaire (Rico) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 01:17 pm:

Ya, I'm working on that right now. I knew this guy was full of crap but just wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. I find this whole situation kind of humorous really.

-Not Too Worried Rico

By Henge Wolf (Wolf) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 03:00 pm:

Oh man am I pissed. Speaking of Ebay fraud, here's a little something that just happened to me. A few weeks ago, I won a bid for 4x Spiritmonger . . . the guy had an 87 rating, and his auctions were kind of professional, with added graphics and such. Overall, it looked like a very safe bid. I've had 18 other similar transactions, many with lower-rated individuals, without ever having a problem.

Well, it's been a few weeks, and still no Spiritmongers. Stuff I ordered a week later was actually showing up, but no freakin' Spiritmongers. I decided I'd better e-mail the guy, because once I had a card take a really long time, but it was just on account of the mail being slow. First, my e-mail gets returned because that address isn't working anymore. I hop onto e-bay to review the auction, and I notice that the guy is no longer a Registered User. It seems he ripped off at least 12 people (or 12 people thought to leave him negative responses), all by recieving payment and never shipping the items. Of course he's been suspended from Ebay. What burns me is that the guy was functioning normally (recieving positive feedback) until about 2 days after I sent my money in. I can't comprehend why a person with a rating of nearly 100, who obviously put some time into their ebay-business over at least 18 months, would suddenly just throw it all away like that. He couldn't have even made more than $100-$150. Hel, for all I know maybe the guy died, although the shut-off email seems to suggest deliberate fraud.

In short, my confidence in ebay has been shattered, as I don't think there was any way I could have avoided that. I MIGHT get some money back, but only about $3 since Ebay has a $25 deductable and I paid $28. Of course I still need the damned Spiritmongers . . . I have the whole deck now, but not the most important card in it!

Okay, at least I only lost $28. BUT, who knows when I'll get my deck up and running now, and I'll probably have to spend at least another $30, or I'll have a bunch of Pernicious Deeds, et al, sitting around with nothing to do. I'm contemplating just throwing a moratorium on all magic playing by yours truly until further notice. It wouldn't just be for the reason above, but that is kind of the last straw, in a way. I'm too busy with other things to have to even worry about stuff like this.

Thanks for hearing me vent, of course no one on the "outside" appreciates this problem to the degree another player would, so that's why I brought it here.

Umm, any trustworthy individuals out there with 4 Spiritmongers they don't want? :)

-HengeWolf

By Rico Jones, Elfman Extraordinaire (Rico) on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 08:34 pm:

Hehehe. I might be able to trade them to you. It really depends on whether or not the people I share cards with want them and I don't think they do, so.... Seriously though, let me know. I know how you feel. I've got lots of stuff going on right now too. Just got a computer, two midterms in the remaining two days of this week, etc.

-Rico is trying to convince himself that midterms aren't going to be too hard

By BWM on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 12:32 pm:

Wolf, maybe the guy quit magic... I see more ppl do that, quit magic and because they still have the refs they cheat on a couple of guys too...

By NaClz (Saltz) on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 07:36 am:

Can't you do the microwave test?

I think if you put most types of fake cards in the microwave, the glue melts off. But real cards don't.

Then again, you should probably try it with a Legends card that isn't quite so pricey as Drains.

And DON'T do it with foils. Then it gets...dangerous.

Saltz

By Hetemti on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 08:08 pm:

Hey, blue lightning bolts are very rare. You should never miss such an opportunity to have one...even if for merely a few seconds.

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