Earlier I had a discussion with a couple friends of mine, and I want to know what you think..
We all have played type 1 since we started magic, and all but one of my friends has played our share of type 2, also. I’ve been playing ever since the set The Dark was released, and I’ve seen magic go through many phases. I’ve seen the impact of certain cards, Force of Will, Necropotence, and also of decks, Brain Wessieman’s “The Deck”, Trix, BBS, and how everyone’s attitude changes toward it.
Typically, you will have three responses to magic:
1. You play for the fact of winning and getting boosters
2. You play with your friends for something to do
3. You play at tournaments, but not as often as with your friends, and although you do take magic seriously, you still can have fun with it
Most people will claim to be 3, but in truth the majority of players fall into category 1. It hasn’t always been like this, usually when people get the most “patriotic” about Magic, it’s during a large event or the release/restricting of a card. For example, many voices never herd came to give their thoughts on the restricting of Fact or Fiction. However, the majority of these comments are negative ones. When we first saw the first full Torment spoiler, I assure you there were 20 negative comments to 1 good comment on every card. Is Torment just a really bad set? No. Then are we just really bad players?
When most people consider a ‘good’ player and a ‘bad’ player, you’ll think of Kai Buddie and the kid at FNM playing a Kavu deck. But what is really a good player?
When you think of a good samaritan, do you think of someone having fun, or the person crushing the person having fun with his or her $1,500 keeper deck?
The reason I bring up this topic is it has been shown more and more. Not just in these mills, but everywhere, at all the tournaments you go to, all the websites you visit. And no longer can you think, “well, it’s just 1 out of 10 people who can’t lose, forget it”, because no longer are the majority ‘good’ magic players, but ‘bad’ magic players.
“The boy was progressing, and his mind represented the valley, the water filling to the brim was the knowledge; not once did it occur to the child that he was drowning in this water.”
Just my 2 cents.
Are you saying that most people(category 1) don't play casually at all?(since they only play for boosters) When I play in a tournament, I play to win but when I play casually I want to have fun with all the cards that I would never get to play with otherwise, such as orcish spy, The hive and my favorite card ever, ATOG
You have to understand the different environments we're all coming from.
You're posting in the Competitive Type 1 Mill. This Mill is dedicated to preserving, maintaining, and improving the best decks in order to win tournaments.
The rants you hear about 'good' cards in new sets are due to the fact that: yes, they are good cards, but cannot replace BETTER cards that are already in current tier 1 and tier 2 decks. When players study new spoiler lists, they are studying PURELY for reason of finding superior cards that can replace previous card choices they've made with previous available sets.
If you post ANYTHING in this mill, it is understood that your comments will be taken into the highest competitive light.
On the other hand. I play casually all the time. I actually only play a single competitive deck. When I play with my friends, I don't mind if he says 'oh wait... can I take that back'. But when I make comments directed towards casual play, I DON'T make them in the Competitive Type 1 Mill.
Well, I don't mean totally not casual, but they would much rather by in a tournament surrounded by competetive players then their friends with fun decks. They don't go to play for fun, as you said, they play to win, not the knowledge, expeirence, or anything else.
And, not that I mean to offend you, but 99 out of 100 people would self-proclaim themself under the 3rd category no matter how they really play.
Most important,
The quality of the cards that they think up is increased during every edition, but it has surely been speeded up from invasion +...
Quote:And, not that I mean to offend you, but 99 out of 100 people would self-proclaim themself under the 3rd category no matter how they really play.
Probably 60% of people play like that, a higher rate at BD, but if you went to NG or something there'd probably be a lower rate.
Quote:but if you went to NG or something there'd probably be a lower rate.
Wow, I am one out of 100. Makes me special somehow. Let´s see, I know at least 8 other guys who participate in tournamnets and still make hellish funny yet playable casual decks. But I really can´t name 800 cutthroat players.
Yes, I know what you mean and the tendency is undenyable, but you seem to be even more depressed with what Magic become than me, and that says something.
BTW, I am very happy with balanced sets without brokeness. I start to ramble if they print cards like FoF, Academy and stuff.
"Well, I don't mean totally not casual, but they would much rather by in a tournament surrounded by competetive players then their friends with fun decks. They don't go to play for fun, as you said, they play to win, not the knowledge, expeirence, or anything else."
I am a very competitive guy. I love to win. I love it. The sense of inner pride I get from winning a tournament is almost like a minor high. Winning makes going to the tournament worth while. I do play for fun, but to me being a competitive Type I player is the fun of playing Magic.
You don't look at a high school football player and say "yeah, we play touch football in our back yard for fun and we are better than you because we don't take it all that seriously". That's a slap in the face of the high school football player who enjoys self improvement and betterment. It's a slap in the face to the guy who is having a blast working his ass off to be the best he can be at the sport.
Simmilarly, you can't look at a competitive Magic player who likes to win and say "we casual players are better because we play for fun". Your assigning a value judgement to the word "fun". Who is to say that your "fun" is more or is better than the "fun" of the guy who is busting his ass to win a tournament?
I have a tough time losing. I hate it. I hate to lose at anything. One of the most difficult aspects of this game is the fact that no matter how great my play style is and no matter how perfect my deck may be, I could still lose to an inferior deck and an inferior player due to the luck of the draw. That is such a hard concept to deal with after taking second place, or third, or scrubbing out and not making the finals. I know that I may lose due to nothing more than luck. It's tough to come to grips with, but I have come to deal with it. But, it still stings when I lose a tournament.
I would bet than 99% of the established guys on this mill are just like me; competitive as hell and they hate to lose.
And, no, most of us don't enjoy beating the crap out of a scrub with our $1500 Keeper decks. But, come tournament time, if scrub shows up with his scrubby deck and expects me to lose becasue he is a noble "casual player", well he's got another thing comming.
Quote:And, no, most of us don't enjoy beating the crap out of a scrub with our $1500 Keeper decks. But, come tournament time, if scrub shows up with his
scrubby deck and expects me to lose becasue he is a noble "casual player", well he's got another thing comming.
that should be "...to meet a couple people from BD..."
are there couples on BD? really brings another dimension to the talk about "gay" decks...;)
It is possible. I met and dated Livonya for a time before going our separate ways. And yes, she was female. :P
This is probably off-topic.
Quote:The quality of the cards that they think up is increased during every edition, but it has surely been speeded up from invasion +...
you know, I understand the point that is trying to be made here but.... do you play magic to lose?
my friends and I play magic casually, and I think there is more competitiveness between us then at most tornys you go to. we play for fun but we always play to win. In that group comming up with the multi-player deck that crushes all others is a matter of pride.
of course going to a torny with a powered down deck is a must, if you know your metagame is a bit weak. but do you build your goofy new deck and play it if you don't think it has a better than average chance of winning? I think not!
though I don't agree with the oppinion of some of those above, and perhaps I think they take this game too seriously, it is not within my, or anyone elses right to call them on it.
if that is the way they are, there is nothing that can be done about it. if all of the too competitive players that exist today were to lighten up, there would be just as many tomorrow. If you don't like playing them then don't, but complaining about them just adds fuel to their fire. a post such as your's (while I agree with some of your points) just allows those you are portraying as the bad guys, to get up on their high horses and shake their finger at you.
by the way, a Keeper worth only $1500 isn't a very good Keeper.
2 cents,
Molot
oh yea by the way, as far as playability of newer cards go, there haven't been been more than a few good cards made in the last 5 sets. and torment is ass
course that is just my opinion.
Molot
The moment you think this game is all about winning, then it ceases to be fun. A good player can lose to an inferior deck played by a 'scrub' because of bad draws, but does he then think that his deck is any worse, or that he's an inferior player? No, a good player chalks it up to bad luck, which happens every time in every facet of our existence. He then proceeds to smash said scrub 50 games in a row.
This is a game, and like the sports analogy says, we play this game to win. But do we really play it for just that? I started playing Magic almost seven years ago, I didn't start playing it just for the sake of being a winner. I put the experience first and foremost before anything else. Until now, I can still play casual games against little kids with fun decks I built and have a great time, wheter I win or lose. Its great playing against someone who has as much fun playing the game as you do.
Don't get me wrong, I do not enjoy losing any more than the next guy, especially in tournaments or competitive play, but do I let losing affect me negatively in any way? No. Losing is a part of the game. You can't expect to win every time, wheter in sports, life, or Magic.
Do I enjoy winning? Hell yeah! Winning is great, but I don't let the drive to win overshadow what led me to love this game in the first place. Winning is fantastic, but what's winning unless you believe in the game in the first place? Players devote their time and effort to winning, build competitive decks and enter tourneys, because they believe that they can win if they try hard enough. People who try that hard, I refuse to believe care very little about the game.
If you think Magic is any worse off today than on the day you picked up your first starter deck, then you're not playing Magic, you're spoiling it, for yourself and for others.
TESTIFY