------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ATTENTION EVERYONE ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------
Toc5 begins on January 15.
------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------
It's going to have a maximum of 32 players and will consist of a Swiss with cut for Top8.
Sign up starts on December 30 and ends on January 13. To sign up send an e-mail to e***a@t***t.com with the subject being TOC5 SIGNUP. Add your nickname on this forum as well as your IRC nickname if you have one.
I would like to have all players send a decklist of their decks in the e-mail as well, and a brief explanation on different card choices. The decks and explantions will only be revealed after the last round of the Swiss. The name of the deck will be revealed however, so have fun coming up with cool names.
Also, please add your deck's security code in the e-mail, because since I won't be revealing the decklists until after the Top8, I think there should be at least some way your opponents can make sure you are not changing decks to get favorable match-ups. Your security code can be found by play a solitaire game with your deck, and getting the 6-digit number that will appear on the buffer window.
The rounds will be 2 weeks long, with no-shows by either side resulting in a draw the 1st time it happens, and a match loss/disqualification the 2nd consecutive time it happens.
For any extra info you can e-mail the same e-mail address with a subject line of TOC5:HELP.
Cheating is strictly forbidden, and if it happens that you are found cheating, you will be disqualified from the tournament and other disciplinary actions will most likely be applied(/me pokes Rakso ).
I will try my best to have this tournament ran as smoothly as possible, and that there will be no delays between the rounds.
Hope you all have fun,
face, IRC random
Ack. I was hoping to play if it ran during the break, but between my time zone and how teachers here love to catch up during January...
a few things things...
1: Why have a limit on players? That is silly. If people want to play, why deny them? The tournament can handle any number of players. We can always do 6 rounds of swiss if necessary to tie break.
2: I think one additional rule needs to be made. If you don't play round one, you get dropped unless you specfically contact face about it. Last TOTC was a wreck by the time I started to manage it because so many people had dropped and at least 4 players never even showed at all, really skewing the stats. People who do not show for round one should not get a second chance.
3: How should we report game matches then? Cause keeping your deck type secret seems like a good thing to do.
4: Even after top 8 are declared, keep sideboards secret :P
No secrets. Screw that, it's totally unlike a real tournament. Post decks and SBs like always. Big fragging deal if someone knows, as long as they all get released at the same time it's all even.
I'll be the deck registration guy if people want, since I won't play and have no interest in who wins.
Azhrei: What tourneys do you play? In a real tournament, you can have something unexpected both main and SB and thusly throw your opponent off -> no such thing here. Acolytec made a BRILLIANT suggestion which will prevent people cheating and keeping things secret:
Post complete decks with SB at the start of the tournament, but DO NOT disclose the deck name and the player playing it.
I want to have some tech at the ToC, and tech is much more effective if people don't know about it in advance.
Also: I am in support of no max limit on players. Face: If you need help organizing it, I will volunteer (as long as I can still play the thing)
--
Chris
I think your ideas are all good, but we need to have something place for the Round duration. Last toyrney lasted almost 6 months. :/ So, if you are going to enforce the NO DELAY Round rule, it will be great. Because if you give time and time for players to play a round, they (we ) are going to take the whole time to do it and wait until the last posible time to play it. So NO MERCY. You didn't play your round on time, you LOOSE.
I kinda like the idea of not reveling the Decks. But if this is not possible and ppl prefer otherwise (like Azhrei suggests) the at least the SB, because like CF is saying, it will be nice to have a "secret" tech that noone knows about until they see it on the game table.
Just my few Mexican cents (= $0.002 USD)
Arex
I'm all for top secret tech, believe me, but not reporting anything more than match results for potentially a couple of months seems rather boring to me.
aye, there's going to have to be normalish reporting going on. You can't prepare against every deck, but with the non-disclosed players thing, it'll make discussing the decks even more interesting. Half of the fun of the TOC is talking about what's going on in it.
Still, people may figure out fairly quickly who is playing what, except for decks that are really similar. I don't think this is a big deal though; you still get one nice match of secrecy, sort of like you get one dual of secrecy in a match.
That way, the secrecy is just to make things more interesting.
grah; shouldn't type when in hurry -> make less sense
Initially, the decks are secret, but match reports certainly can (and should) contain clues. Then, it will be just like scouting at a regular tournament. You learn what the other is playing, but don't know each card etc.
--
Chris
Post the decks, just dont post the names of the players. That way people who are not playing can see the decks and talk about them. It would make for a very cool tournament, with 30+ decklists posted but only guesses as to which one is your opponents.
Is this tournament played via encyclopedia, mtgplay, sidestep or apprentice. or some other way?
I would love to do this it would rock so much to compete against soooo many good players, but i do not know how to.
Thanks.
-Freddie
I didn't like the deck list post thing mainly cause I was kinda too lazy to go look at it and there are no surprises if you go and look at it.
LIke in the match against alhazard I was holding back for fear of Price of Progress which he didn't have and what not. I think it makes it more like real tournies if you don't know.
But I understand the cheating aspect as well so maybe posting the decklists without names is the best compromise.
I'm not playing in it, so I'll be "Keeper of the List" if there's no objection.
Oh, and let's have this as a promise to each other: We will NOT try to match the security codes with the decklists.
TO AZHREI: thanks for the help, I'm sure you will help a lot.
TO EVERYONE: I'm still against revealing decks before the tournament, but what I will do is give the general archtype. Feel free to post your decklists in match reports and such.
Also, we will no longer have a maximum number of players, unless the number gets ridiculous (128 or more :[).
Top 8 decks will be revealed after the last round of the Swiss portion, but the sideboard will remain secret.
Round 1 no-shows will be dropped after the deadline unless im contacted about it.
To report your matches, e-mail me at e***a@t***t.com . Any IRC messages about TOC will most likely be ignored, so feel free to report on IRC, just don't be surprised if you get a draw or a match loss for the said match.
If your security code DOES NOT match your deck, and one of your opponents e-mails me about it, you will receive a warning, and a match loss. So don't screw up.
By the way, I might be playing (very unlikely), so if anyone wants someone supervising my matche reports, or openly opposes my intentions of playing, feel free to say so.
face, IRC random
e***a@t***t.com
PS: Freddie Williams, it's going to be played using the apprentice software, avaiable at www.mtgonline.org
Just keeping it on the top so everyone can see it.
hmm
Now that I'm thinking about it, there's no way i can play, because of my choice of having the decks secret. If I did play, I would have an unfair advantage over my opponents.
Therefore, I won't be playing TOC5.
face, IRC random
e***a@t***t.com
Registration does not begin until the 30th, so all of you people who e-mailed me about it will have to e-mail me again.
When you do e-mail me, send everything discussed above.
ANY E-MAILS BEFORE 12/30 WILL BE IGNORED.
What about for people who play a signature deck? The decklist won't be listed, but it'll be kinda obvious what they're playing. For example K-Run or me...
If you want some kind of secrecy, give it a personal name.
Unfortunately, if you're playing your "usual" deck, everyone pretty much knows it. Of course, you gain the same advantage, and any tweaks will remain secret.
You can always go with a rogue deck, but lose the advantage of lots of testing.
Luckily i wont have any of those problems, since all my deck postings get deleted or moved by Rakso nobody will know anything about the decks i may play.
LOL@pickle ^_^
^_^
heh. If you play a pet deck, then you have the advantage, bc you might want to surprise people and play another deck they aren't expecting you to use. ;P
Squirrel is t***c@m***r.com * Konkeosisouphanhasapasipherimon
Squirrel on +#witticisms #twix #Magic4You #bdchat #apprentice
Squirrel using irc2.eXscape.net eXscape.Net
Squirrel has been idle 48secs, signed on Sat Dec 08 17:59:46
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[22:31] (PsychoCid): wtf
[22:31] (PsychoCid): lies.
[22:31] (Squirrel): no
[22:31] (PsychoCid): more lies.
[22:31] (Squirrel): I found it in a report on wizards
[22:32] (PsychoCid): heh
[22:32] (Squirrel): maybe its one heck of a typo
Well, if you're not going to post decklists, I wouldn't bother with archtypes either. Just leave it all for the reports.
I have never played in a toc before, but i would like to play in this one. I would secret decks seems like the way to go. Limiting the number of players is ridiculous. Is there any reason why less players is better?
face already repealed the player limit.
Azhrei- How about $25 for the decklists? I'm not playing nor do I want to resell the lists to anyone else. I do, however, think it sucks to have to wait 3-6 months for what will be "current", post-FoF, type1 tech.
I THINK we're posting decks but not names.
Anyway, I'd send them out for free.
Or, if you have a hot girlfriend who's 18 or older....
How about not posting decks or names. I don't really see how anyone other than the organizer needs to know this stuff, and I think it discourages innovation. Its no big deal, but just a thought.
Azhrei: 18? Didn't you say in BDChat that 15 was good enough ?
Discourages innovation? All the decks would be registered before anybody gets to see them.
I really think the community got something out of the listings in the past. As Ufactor said, keeping decklists secret really discourages discussion of ideas on the mill in general, and we always got a couple days' entertainment out of going over everybody's deck and making predictions about matchups.
I don't really see how putting main decks up, after everyone is registered, is a big problem. How many big tournaments do you go to where, once your through the first two rounds, you don't know your opponents deck? Sideboards can be kept nicely secret, however. Thats where the best tech hides.
Honestly, revealing the decklists really kills any tech you might have against a matchup ;/
Say I'm playing Parfait with a splash of red for blood moon and reb fort eh ctrl match-up. What would be a surprise is now known by everyone and they will be expecting it.
I strongly oppose decks being revealed before top8, but if every player agrees, I'll do it.
If decks are published, but no names are attached, there would be an element of secrecy. For those that have trademark decks of course then people would have a better idea of what you are playing.
For what it's worth, I think that secret decks would be a bad idea for the ToC. I'd rather have them all posted so we can have the fun of anlysing matchups and predicting results before the fact.
In that way, it provides us with something we can't get by playing at your normal everyday sanctioned tourney, which I think is one of the appeals of the ToC.
That, and I always saw our ToC s as a fun way to exhibit decks in a less played format, and give us some sort of idea of what actually beats what, rather than fierce competiton to be number one.
Just some thoughts...
I personally think secrecy sucks. It's not like we're playing for anything except fun anyway-- stop taking it so seriously and keep things fun.
Preach on, brother.
Post the decks. We're not playing for anything and I'm too damn lazy to look anyway.
Compromise: post the decks after the first round is done!
sorry for not answering earlier, but the day i tried to the server was down or something.
Fine, i will reveal decklists. :/
What format will u all want?
decklist + player name
decklist
etc...
?
Just post all of the decklists and titles. Simply dont post the person who created the deck with it.
Seems simple enough and should suit everybody. Everyone gets to see the deck, but the thrill of not knowing who is running which deck is still there.
Azhrei: How is playing against an opponent who has memorized every aspect of your deck fun? Surprises, however, are fun. Fun is guaranteed by some level of secrecy.
--
Chris
I think this is especially true of sideboarding.
Some decks are far, far more flexible with their sideboards. Others can't really pull any tricks.
hmmm.
How about,
decklists sans SB sans player name, then?
Then you'd be able to play transformational sbs more effectively.
I don't really care that much, but it will effect the deck I play, so it needs to be decided with some finality pretty soon. People will accept it, whatever the decision is. Your choice, face, since you are the TC.
I think the best compromise given everything that's been said is to just NOT post anything until after round 1.
At that point, post the decklists WITHOUT SBs.
That's a compromise for the players and the audience. It also helps the rogue decks and those with funny maindeck hate.
You have to realize that many rogue decks can win only if they catch an opponent who guesses wrong.
Yes, that's the best idea yet. Kudos to whatever genius came up with that.
ok
After round 1 i will reveal the decks and deck names, but i wont reveal the player playing it, or the sideboard.
T8 will be the same, except the players will be revealed as well
ok
After round 1 i will reveal the decks and deck names, but i wont reveal the player playing it, or the sideboard.
T8 will be the same, except the players will be revealed as well
ok
After round 1 i will reveal the decks and deck names, but i wont reveal the player playing it, or the sideboard.
T8 will be the same, except the players will be revealed as well
hmm
h8 IE
You can reveal my deck name now. I'll be playing domain
Goat-Go is clearly favored for a Domain metagame.
URBG sligh-counter-stompy-suicide is good too.
Too many spells domain has to deal with etc
I think this makes LD a teir one deck. Since you not only disrupt mana but you weaken all the domain cards with each hit.
Will, dude, you will just be walking straight into my harrows!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA.
Bump.
Well if u post Decks AND Sec Codes some very mindless people will try and cheat. So one or the other can not be public.
boink.
no really secret decks are the pits. Lots of us who can't/don't play but love to "watch"- read all the reports and guess at matchups, round outcomes etc are shunted aside. :-(
The ToC is for the players more than the "spectators": it is a contest and revealing complete decklists will affect the way the competition is. You'll get reports, so... (censored).
--
Chris
We could always make complete reports but change names around to be silly so as to simply have "deck A" against "deck C" instead of "acolytec" vs. "burning ice" Give your decks a really good name :P
Oh come on, T1ToC is always about the spectators and the decks, not the actual tourney. Just post names and decklists. And post them in your match reports on BD as well.
Agreed. Its not like we're playing for anything, so who gives a damn?
-Eric
Quote:
By face on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 01:54 pm:
ok
After round 1 i will reveal the decks and deck names, but i wont reveal the player playing it, or the sideboard.
T8 will be the same, except the players will be revealed as well
That still stands. If you want to reveal your deck, it's your problem. I won't.
Spin that was not always true. The T1ToC3 was played for a Foil Opt. But the who gives a damn is still correct.
And it Is about specators, not only their own comments but the match winner showing off his brilliant plays to them in the report.
-Liam
Well, I never said I was speaking for all ToCs. Just this one, and there is no prize that I know of. So nyahh!
You want to know my decklist now?
-Eric
Bump
""
Can someone please clear up this Title so that more people can understand this thread?
Think I should sign up?
I have no idea if I can keep the commitments to play, especially since the time zone is an incredible pain for me.
I'll be a "spectator", and I for one like it the way face is going to do this. I'll have heck of a fun to sort out who is playing which deck...
Dozer
Face--I sent you an email signing up but never received a return email on my entry....am I in?
I'm e-mailing everyone today.
face
Hey, I try to e-mail my entry but the mail server responded that the hotmail account was inactive. Did I type it wrong or has it changed?
here's where I sent it: face
Luckily, I didn't mind really since I'm not happy with my deck just yet:0
just a thought. a way back in the sealed deck league i dabled with you could search a web site for a persons name and if they really had that card. it would say something linke "Player X has 3 stone rains" . admititly it might be inpractable in this situation, buts its an idea.
Red Wizard needs Stone Rain...Badly!
why, Lord Fril? The ToC is a chance for good players without good cards to compete.
hmm
try sending it to e***a@t***t.com or h***m@a***i.com
well, honestly revealing decks or not, people will find out what people are playing. Imagine a regular IRL tournament. Whoever you play in round 1 you usually talk to your friends about and vice-versa. By the end of normal Swiss, you will have general knowledge on all the decks you have played PLUS all the decks your friends have played (very multiplictive)
Plus the fact MTG players arent the most secretive in the bunch, everyone likes to reveal their secret tech and gloat how they are masters of the universe, soooo, might as well post them anyway =P
face--Sent you an e-mail a couple of days ago, but I got no response. Did you get it?
i've been having problems sending e-mails.
on sunday i'll post all the decks i have along with everyone i have signed up, and u'll have monday to send me your deck in case you werent there. After Sunday no deck changes can be made.
Face, a question: Are there any players who you've signed up who are currently not welcome as posters here? Because I can't imagine many people would enjoy that, it would make it hard for match reports to be posted...plus the risk of apprentice hacks being used, and so on.
and why in the nine hells would they want to play?
and besides, if they are not welcomed here, why would they try and play? ;/
Nebrindi, are you running this tourney with Face?
Cause if you post all the decklists then give everyone another day to modify them or to join then we'll have time to analyze the competition and tune our decks too much.
So, as soon as you post any tourney decks Saturday please don't allow anyone to modify their decks or to submit new decks. The advantage the late Saturday or Sunday deck-submitters would have over earlier-submitters would be unfair.
8^)
Razor
Qouting (yes, I dunno how to quote here):
"
By Nebrindil (Nebrindil) on Wednesday, January 02, 2002 - 04:07 pm:
I'm e-mailing everyone today.
face
"
Note how it started on Nebrindil and was signed by face? they are the same person =Þ
::Nimrod runs as face will try to kill him for spoiling this::
Interestingly enough, he mentioned both e-mail addresses (ih8mtg@hotmail, andremoriera@hotmail)in chat today as direct lines to him. Neato.
Razor, sign ups end Jan 13th. The thirteenth is Sunday.
Steve
Can people without ( and )'s around their names not sign up? I was really looking forward to participating in this but I don't have a registered name, I am a regular, I just read posts a lot more then I reply to them.
I would say yes. Go ahead and do it. Face probably isn't going to not let you play just becuase you aren't a regular poster.
In fact the hope is that we draw more people to this place with the high profile tournament .
Stephen Menendian
certainly, the more the better.
I emailed my sign up to to e***a@t***t.com and haven't received a reply am I signed up or not?
i e-mailed to the h***m@a***i.com (I think, the one that was like that). Should have autotransferred, since I was sending on hotmail. Sent on the 10th. Please tell me if you did not recieve, so that I can resend, or get to you someother way.
Thx,
--Shadow
I have not recieved any kind of response either. I'll try the ih8mtg one now.
I have also received no reply and I've e-mailed twice.
me niether
nor me
It takes him forever to reply to any e-mails, the first time I submitted, it took 4 days to recieve a confirmation.
Hopefully he'll pop back on tonight and mention who is signed up at this point.
Vegeta2711
I also attempted to submit, well twice. One of my sends was rejected and returned though, from both hotmail accounts, so please email me at Ai***r@r***r.com if you did not recieve my updated submission.
Alright..I<ve been away form home, and still am(i<m sure that<ll appear through my even MORE botched up typing...sorry ;)
So, from bangkok, my last stop befopre getting home, i<m posting here to make sure that face knows that i<m playing. I<ll send my deck through both email an here. I don<t care if i<m at a disadvantage.
Yes, i realize ow low it is to post on BD while halfway around the world, but.... ;)
In the meanwhile, have fun!
I have also sent it (to both). Just felt like joining in the fun of announcing it.
the thing is, he said noone can sign up as of today. So whoever he missed is screwed.
Hope he just didn't reply.
I just didnt reply. I've been busy with a few personal problems (one of which is me moving to another country for life in about a month).
If you need to ask me if you'r in or not you can ask me on IRC or e-mail me (i'll "prolly" read it )
sorry about that,
face
btw, we have about 45 ppl signed up.
Well, that is a lot more than 32 people. Have you changed the number of entrants from 32 to 45+?
8^)
Razor
How many rounds etc?
Wait, Face, you're moving back to Greenland? Coolness.
-Eric
there was no limit on number of entrants. Look up rules for swiss tournaments to figure out how many rounds (based on number of people). I'd guess 5.
33-64 is 6 rounds. 65-128 is 7. It's just the (next highest power of 2) rounds.
so it's, like ceiling(log_2 (num_entrants))
=p
Shadow:It'd probably be faster going the other way around, anyway 8p