Voting for a new card on Magicthegathering.com

Beyond Dominia: The Type One Magic Mill: Voting for a new card on Magicthegathering.com

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By Phantom Tape Worm (Tape) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 06:39 am:

Hey gang, just wanted to remind eveyone to cast their vote in the "you make the card" thing they're doing at magicthegathering.com.

I posted this in the competitive mill because I know a lot of you don't visit the other mills, and I think it's important that we BDominians get involved in the guiding the future of the game we love.

If you haven't been following the contest, so far the card is a green creature and we are currently voting on a card mechanic (what this creature will do).

Your choices are as follows:

1) CARDNAME can't be countered.
Protection from blue
As CARDNAME comes into play, choose a creature type.
Creature spells of the chosen type can't be countered by spells or abilities.


2) When CARDNAME is put into a graveyard from play, you may reveal the cards in your library. If you do, target opponent chooses from among them three creature cards with different names. Put one of them into play and the rest into your graveyard. Then shuffle your library.


3) Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, you may search your library for a card named CARDNAME and put it into play. If you do, shuffle your library.


4) All creatures able to block CARDNAME do so.
Whenever a creature blocks CARDNAME, you may draw a card.


5) Except for enchant creature spells, noncreature spells cost 1 more to play.


6) XM, T: Reveal the top X cards of your library. Put all creature cards with converted mana cost X into play and the rest into your graveyard.


7) CARDNAME can't be countered.
CARDNAME can't be the target of spells or abilities.
Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, that player can't play instant spells this turn.


8) When CARDNAME is put into a graveyard from play, you may return it to play under its owner's control at end of turn.


9) At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if you control four permanents named CARDNAME, you win the game.


10) Whenever a player plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on CARDNAME.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove all +1/+1 counters from CARDNAME and distribute them among any number of creatures.


Vote for whatever you like, but vote. Let BDominia's voice be heard!


And if you can't make up your mind, then vote #5. It's clearly superior to all the others :)


By Matt D'Avanzo, the Sylvan Librarian (Matt) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 07:12 am:

Number five would only be good if it was a cheap creature to cast (G or G1). Then it might prove nasty in a Stompy deck with Worbs over Bounty and Briar Shields over Giant Growth.

#4 is so obviously an only-in-draft card it makes me sick.

Personally I like #2s ability the best by far, but the creature itself needs to be cheap with a decent p/t ratio to be worth a damn in this format--like a 2/1 for G1. It'd be an awesome way to stall Abyss or recover from Balance, but I bet that they'll make it some ridiculous GG3 3/3 creature or some such nonsense.


By Yamo, Supposed Model of Courtesy (Yamo) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 07:18 am:

Too many of those are just color hosers. Bleh. Boring.


By Dandan (Dandan) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 08:08 am:

How many of them help you kill Morphling?

5 and 7 look useful. 5 looks good for Stompy but 7 would allow control Green to exist (Plow Under and Stunted Growth, etc)

I submitted the ability to give and take away 'untargetability' for GG. A useful ability, in flavour for Green and at least a little helpful in dealing with Morphling.


By Will, the walking dude on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 08:58 am:

I think 7 is the most significant choice. If its put on a cheep creature, 1/1 of g or 1g or gg. It makes green decks good. Throw 4 of these guys into combo enchantress, or squirrel craft, of even the saproling cluster deck. These guys give you an un-counterable way to force through combo spells against control. And its not like they can fire it because its untargetable to.

10 ten is a good card that owuld probably push miracle grow over the top if it was 1 or 2 mana. So I like it as well.

5 on a 1/1 for g might be good. But I'm not sure what it would accomplish. It would make stompy better, but something would have to get cut to make room for it. If you cut 2 power creatures or pump the deck will get slower, which might make up for the time you gian with this ability. One option would be to replace the lyrists with these guys, and hope the mana disruption stops the enchantments the lyrists would have taken down.

I personally like 7 best, so that’s what I endorse. Its the most powerful and significant card.


By Nil8er on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 09:22 am:

In my opinion, #5 and #2 are then only abilities that I can see Wizard's not putting on an overpriced creature.
If ability #2 were chosen, wouldn't your opponent be allowed (by the new tourney rules) to write down a list of every card still in your library?

2) When CARDNAME is put into a graveyard from play, you may reveal the cards in your library. If you do, target opponent chooses from among them three creature cards with different names. Put one of them into play and the rest into your graveyard. Then shuffle your library.

On a side note, I think that it would be nice if WOTC took the chosen ability and made a common, uncommon, and a rare version of the card with the ability.


By Lord of the Goats (Goat) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 05:11 pm:

"If ability #2 were chosen, wouldn't your opponent be allowed (by the new tourney rules) to write down a list of every card still in your library?"

i believe that the rules say that they can write stuff before or after a spell resolves, but not during the resolution of a spell


By Peztacular on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 05:51 pm:

If #7 just had that last ability, I would love it. I could even tolerate the untargetability. But the "can't be countered" makes it just an uniteresting "F*ck you Blue" card. And that blows.

It's clearly not the best ability, but #6 looks to be strategic and interesting.


By BD Stompist (Fbi) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 06:07 pm:

#7 WOULD be the best ability except that its almost guaranteed to cost 4 plus mana and have double g in its casting cost to prevent combo decks from abusing it.


By CrazyCarlWinter (Carlw) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 06:17 pm:

I like #7 the best, but it'll have to be more expensive to cast due to it's untargettablity methinks....


By Teletubby (Teletubby) on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 06:25 pm:

I like #3, because it seems to be a nice way to generate card advantage. Imagine this on a two mana 2/2 creature, that damages a slow opponent twice (--> all four are in play, if during the second attack both CARDNAMEs deal their damage) before he finds s.th. to remove it.
You could save the other creatures in your hand, despite having four creatures in play.


By Will, the walking dude on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 08:30 pm:

Number 7 seems like a big FU to blue. And it is. I think it would really change the metagame. It means that control HAS to splash have real control ellemnets like moat or oath (or at the very least a masticore). It also provides a real boast to combo. It means green combo will be able to beat control decks that don't disrupt (ie tutor for mind twist instead of ancestral). But, green combo decks have one key factor that keeps them in check. They are green. The green combo decks don't kill before turn 4 even if they are goldfishing. So the green combo decks will be kept in check by agro, which will be kept in check by the new control that has anti creature measrues.

Combo>control>agro>combo
the classic metagame is
contol>combo>agro

Number 7 would move us form a metagame where one deck type is jsut the best to a loop metagame where everything was viable.


By K-Run (K_Run) on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 11:35 pm:

Vote #7 !!!


By Phantom Tape Worm (Tape) on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

@ will, the walking dude: interesting analysis. You're suggesting that #7 go into something like a squirrel craft deck, and because squirrel craft decks are inherently weak vs aggro that the environment will become balanced.

My concern is not green combo decks using this critter, but blue combo decks, namely academy, sideboarding it. Game two and three academy would have a very strong game vs control with this little monster (think of it as an uncounterable abeyance every round)...and what effect would that have on the metagame? A shift toward combo. Which is IMHO the least desirable shift a metagame can take.

I would like to see a balanced environment too, but i don't think that voting for #7 will have that effect.


IMHO #5 is the best choice. Tagged onto a 2/1 for 2 mana it would give aggro the push it needs to fight back vs control and combo. It's a good mechanic that gives aggro a semi-solution to broken turns where the opposing deck just goes off. Also, i see it as a way of fixing all of those undercosted broken spells that run rampant in type 1. Suddenly you have to pay for moxen, tutoring isn't quite as easy, and if you get multiples in play it's a make shift nether void. The thing is, right now aggro is sorely lacking, remember Matt D'Avanzo's aggro challenge? Maybe this is part of the solution.

Vote #5 for a better, more competitive aggro.


By AHappyClown (Clown) on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 04:25 pm:

I would be all over #7 if they made it at least a 4/4. I really miss turning large green creatures sideways for the win, and in Type 1 green is sorely lacking in playable fat.

Additionally, if they made #7 large and gave it a large casting cost, then combo couldn't abuse it as much.


By Roxas (Roxas) on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 08:24 pm:

I think that a 3/3 for 2GG with ability #7 would be good. The GG would keep it out of combo, and aggro decks could still use it well in a Fires-esque deck. Give it Regenerate and it's almost a new green Morphling.

-Jesus Roxas
Rebel428


By Will, the Walking Dude (Walking) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:16 am:

Well, they have cut to a top 3. The ones left are

Card #7

CARDNAME can't be countered.
CARDNAME can't be the target of spells or abilities.
Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, that player can't play instant spells this turn.

Card #8

When CARDNAME is put into a graveyard from play, you may return it to play under its owner's control at end of turn.

Card #10

Whenever a player plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on CARDNAME.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove all +1/+1 counters from CARDNAME and distribute them among any number of creatures.
__
It seems like # 8 is basically an inferior nether spirit. Although, if it was a 2/1 it would be a very good card since it could serve early and stop abyss late game. Although, I think that’s sort of a red herring since any green creature that was 2/1 for g without a drawback would be good. Everyone knows stompy needs 1 more savanna lion.

For #7 see my analysis above, if this is costed correctly it will do a wonderful job of balancing the metagame, maybe at gg. If its costed at g then it goes into academy and we all die, if its costed at 3gg it will never see play. If you think that people will be able to do the costs for this the right way then it should be your choice.

#10 is the uber miracle grow card. Costed at g or 1g this pushes miracle grow over the top. Note that this works whenever any player plays a card, it could come down on turn one and grow when your opponent plays moxes on turn 2. My problem with 10, is that since miracle grow is already the best deck in extended they will not be willing to give it a card that’s far more powerful than anything that’s in the deck now. The way they will likely neuter this card is by costing it high enough to make it unplayable in a land light deck like miracle grow. Anything with costs that high is useless to the type 1 community.


By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:19 am:

so sick of the blue hate.


By K-Run (K_Run) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 01:29 pm:

Vote #7!!


By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 01:52 pm:

#7 rocks--3/3 for 2gg seems just right. 2GG keeps it out of combo. If it's uncounterable, it doesn't need to be supercheap, because it doesn't have to slip under counterspells. 3/3 gives it decent punch. It's not fire-able, but it is boltable (if it's so good against control, you can't make it too good against sligh). With a little enhancement (rancor and other green goodies), it can trample over most things that would get in its way to keep it from triggering. Lots of potential for reviving dead archtypes.


By BD Stompist (Fbi) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 02:00 pm:

If its a fattie, its almost guaranteed to be overpriced and ergo suck :(

I can't believe #5 didn't even make top 3

And everybody whining about "blue hate" needs to realize that wotcs been green hating for 7+ damns yrs. Blues got ancestral, mana drain, et al. Every other color has better stuff in t1 than green. What the hell have we got over that same time period? Bastards won't even give us a green savannah lions

Maybe if the green boon had been a 3/3 for 1 mana as priginally intended instead of giant growth...


By Matt D'Avanzo, the Sylvan Librarian (Matt) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 03:35 pm:

I have to agree with Freddie here. Mana Drain, Acnestral, etc. isn't 'hate'. They are really good cards. The answer is to make more good cards in other colors and blaance things out, not make more hosers. I'm sick of people thinking they're really clever because they pack lots of blue-hate in a deck.

I think part of the problem is A LOT of the people playing magic now, on and off this mill, started with Tempest and beyond where WotC started printing tons of playable deck/color hosers. The players from this era expect to be able to beat deck X just by the virute of dropping some bomb hate card from their SB.

Some of those card mechanics above look nice (some are ridiculous), but it's all irrelevant speculation as to whch creature is best since they didn't give us the CC.


By Will, the Walking Dude (Walking) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 03:38 pm:

to brianB: #7 is untargetable. So its not getting bolted.

My personal stance is that 3/3 for 2gg is worthless. Power<casting cost and by that point the control deck has probably gone to far. I think #7 really wants to be 2/2 for gg. Low enouph to come out early and beat, but with double g to keep it out of academy.


By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 04:04 pm:

the combined abilities (i didn't even notice untargetablility) are so good, i really don't think you should be giving it power equal to casting cost. 2/2 for GG is over the top. The most you'd get there is 1/1 or maybe 1/2. 3/2 for GG1 is even pushing it. Maybe 2/3 for GG1 if you really, really want to get the cost down.


By BD Stompist (Fbi) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 04:06 pm:

2/1 for gg or its nigh worthless in my eyes...


By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 04:52 pm:

it would get play in various formats at either 1/1 for GG or at 3/3 for GG2. Just because it doesn't automatically drop into every green deck (as it just about would at 2 power for 2) doesn't make it worthless.


By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 05:09 pm:

11) Cost: (g) 10/10

When CARDNAME comes into play, tap up to 200 lands of your choice.

Islands and non basic lands that you do not control do not untap on their controlers untap step.

When CARDNAME comes into play, target opponent discards their hand (madness costs may not be activated from theis discard).

When CARDNAME comesinto play draw 3 cards

CARDNAME may be played any time you could play an instant.

CARDNAME can't be countered.

Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, that player can't play instant spells this turn.

Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, that player can't play ANY spells next turn.

CARDNAME is unblockable.

CARDNAME can't be sacrafised.

When CARDNAME is put into a graveyard from anywere put it directly into play with ten (10) +1/+1 counters on it.

(0) CARDNAME gains flying.

(0) Put a creature card from your graveyard hand or library directly into play.

CARDNAME is uneffected by summoning sickness

Creatures you control cannot be the target of spells or abilities.

Creature spells you control cannot be counterd.

(0) CARDNAME becomes the color of your choice until the end of turn.

CARDNAME may only be played if your opponent is playing control, and you are not.

-------

Finally life is good.:)

-Freddie


By AHappyClown (Clown) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 06:46 pm:

I'm tellin' ya, #7 needs to be something like this:

Ilovefat
4GGG
Creature-Fat

Ilovefat can't be countered.
Ilovefat can't be the target of spells or abilities.
Whenever Ilovefat deals combat damage to a player, that player can't play instant spells this turn.

6/6


By Jacob Orlove (Orlove) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 07:00 pm:

Freddie,
you still lose to combo :)


By Rebel428 (Rebel428) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 08:06 pm:

What do you guys think of this:

The Forestmaster
2GG
Creature - Legend
3/3

Forestmaster can't be countered.
Forestmaster can't be the target of spells or abilities.
Whenever Forestmaster deals combat damage to a player, that player can't play any instant spells this turn.
G: Regenerate Forestmaster

It's worded (when Forestmaster deals combat damage) so you can't abuse the "can't play instant spells," and it will still be usable against aggro beacuse of 3 toughness and regenerate. Since it is obviously a very powerful card, I made it a Legend.


By Tracer Bullet, better than Spiff (Tracer) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:21 pm:

BaBaBaBaroken!


By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:52 pm:

it's solid without regeneration. This card has to be in type 2 for 2 years, so they shouldn't just do another spiritmonger and pile abilities onto a card that's already pretty good.


By Jacob Orlove (Orlove) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 12:56 am:

Freddie,
If you really want keeper hate, just replace "that player can't play instant spells" on #7 with "destroy target nonbasic land"
Ouch, would that be painful for keeper. (not mono-U though)


By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 09:46 am:

Reguardless as to what I want, keeper hate is what we are (most likely) going to get, reguardless.

this hole "cannot be countered, cannot be the target of spells or effects" is getting freaking old.

My suggestion is to just make a totally anti control creature, that way maybe people (the populus) could stop bitching about control.

its like the R&D dempt. at Wizards lost a bet, and now blue must not just be equalized, but "gimpified"

Also in t2, its not like control has much going for it anyway, then this crap of 4 maindeck blurred mongoose and nimble mongoose is annoying as hell...

So tired of that.

-Freddie


By Israel Casanova (Casanova) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 08:58 am:

Darn. What's up with these antiblue guys?! The antiblue articles?! The antiblue cards?! $·%·$
Let's massive-email mtg.com asking them to stop this $%&·$


By Curses/Foiled (Curses) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 09:30 am:

Will you guys *please* stop wallowing in self-pity for a second? So, the masses would like a blue hoser. What the Legend's so inherently *wrong* with that? It's not like there haven't been any before.

Granted, pasting "can't be countered" on random cards is moronic - if there's indeed an imbalance between control and threats, the correct solution would obviously be the making of better threats - but one or two on dedicated hosers doesn't strike me as unreasonable - at least not as long as things like Keg exist.


By Israel Casanova (Casanova) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 09:46 am:

a) Beatdown usually beats Monoblue
b) In Type 1 this isn't always like this, but C)
c) The guys asking for these cards play T2. I'm almost sure of that.


By Israel Casanova (Casanova) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 09:49 am:

By the way, I said 'isn't always like this', not control > beatdown...


By Israel Casanova (Casanova) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 10:30 am:

Actually, I dunno why I said that.


By Curses/Foiled (Curses) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 01:26 pm:

So, the Unwashed Masses vote for a blue hoser out of their insane hatred for the color instead of actual gameplay concerns. So what? The means justify the end.

The way I see it is this: We might not be getting the Vanilla Rogue Elephant to combat Ancestral any time soon, but a hoser of Keg proportions sounds like the next best thing, no?


By Elrohir (Elrohir) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 01:37 pm:

Personally, out of the three crap choices left over from 10 even crappier choices, #8 is the least vile. The blue hate and the +1/+1 counters aren't even remotely imaginative, and returning from the graveyard isn't that new either. *sigh* I wish they (WotC) would open their minds for something truly innovative.


By 3rd Wheel in Legend's Love Triangle (Yamo) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 01:45 pm:

So essentially, the masses of Pokemon kids on the official Magic site have voted for a combination of the most boring and narrow of all card types (a color hoser) and the most simplistic of all card types (a random green fatty).

Joy.


By Curses/Foiled (Curses) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 01:45 pm:

Bitter your idea didn't make it? (*evil grin*)


By Curses/Foiled (Curses) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 01:48 pm:

(Please insert the word "'cause".)


By 3rd Wheel in Legend's Love Triangle (Yamo) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 02:07 pm:

No "idea" made it. That's the point. The end result will just be a bland, narrow card that represents nothing innovative whatsoever.


By Israel Casanova (Casanova) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 02:08 pm:

This leads us to something. Mark Rosewater is a T2-scrub, just like the ones who made up these cards!


By Elrohir (Elrohir) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 02:10 pm:

I've had so many of my ideas "make it" that it was not worth my time contributing to something so open that WotC would obviously choose the crappy ideas over the innovative ones. Flip through my expansion sets at my site and you'll see some examples of things that have since been incorporated into Magic, like Shadow and Cycling. The earliest of those sets was made in 1995, and the latest throughout 1999 and 2000. Much has since come to pass.


By Israel Casanova (Casanova) on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 03:33 pm:

And... what's your site's URL?
BTW, if they hate blue, they just should make 'counter-strategy' cards against blue. Not stupid hosers.

Stupid blue haters.


By AHappyClown (Clown) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 11:15 am:

Bah.

They should have just made a green Morphling, but replacing the flying ability with trample.


By Israel Casanova (Casanova) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 12:32 pm:

Clown: I hear there is a card named Autumn Willow that does almost the same than that


By Jacob Orlove (Orlove) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 01:08 pm:


Quote:

Clown: I hear there is a card named Autumn Willow that does almost the same than that




umm...no.
A. Willow is a 4/4 untargetable for 4GG, that lets you target it by paying G. It can't pump, untap, or trample. It can also be countered really easily.


By AHappyClown (Clown) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 04:31 pm:

Thank you Orlove, now I don't have to get nutz on that man.

It would also be pretty easy to counter the green Morphling though.

All things considered, there is a pretty big friggin' difference between:

This
4GG
"This" can't be the target of spells or abilities.
G: Taget player can target "this" with spells and abilities until end of turn.
4/4

and

This
GG3
G: "This" gains trample until end of turn.
G: "This" cannot be the target of spells or abilities until end of turn.
G: Untap "this".
1: "This" gets +1/-1 until end of turn.
1: "This" gets -1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3

Although good old Cardboard Jesus would still kick it around, it'd be a pretty decent creature for green to have.


By Matt the Great (Matt) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 05:28 pm:

I dunno,

Jesus (we know who God is)
3GG
G: trample till eot
2G: cannot be the target of spells or effects till eot
G: +1/+1 till eot
3/3

would be more in-flavor for green. Having evasion, untargetability, and untapping is, I think, too much. If Morphling only had two of any of those three, the number of cards that would kill/neuter it would easily double.


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