I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL >:[
j/k
RivrBoa : It's already tuned, take it into battle and build from there
not much can be done until problems are identified. PeAcE
Here's the SuiBlack deck that I have been working on for about a month or two. Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Creatures (16)
Phyrexian Negator x4
Sarcomancy x4
Carnophage x4
Flesh Reaver x4
Disruption/Tutors/Fun Restricted stuff (19)
Duress x4
Hymn to Tourach x4
Sinkhole x4
Null Rod x4
Demonic Tutor x1
Demonic Consultation x1
Yawgmoth's Will x1
Mana (25)
Dark Ritual x4
Black Lotus x1
Mox Jet x1
Swamp x14
Wasteland x4
Strip Mine x1
Sideboard
Dystopia x4
Masticore x4
Contagion x4
Spinning Darkness x3
Overall, pretty much a standard build. I might consider Nantuko Shade over Flesh Reaver, but it depends on what you play against. Keep the Flesh Reavers if you play against mostly control, and Nantuko Shade if you play more aggro decks.
There must be some mistake, i dont see Hypnotic Specters on your list? Please dont tell me you are one of those fools who say "it doesnt deal enough damage".
Fools?!?!!?!
I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL >:[
j/k
RivrBoa : It's already tuned, take it into battle and build from there not much can be done until problems are identified.
PeAcE
Yep, you should seriously consider using Hyppies. An uncountered first turn Hyppie against control can win you games.
Hippies are nice, but I prefer the Null Rods. I used to run them hippies there, but they were soon replaced with the Rods. I play against a lot of decks with full power and I feel that the Rods will be much more effective then the Specters. Of course, if I could find room, the Specters would be in there without a doubt.
Say bye bye to the reavers and hello to the hyppies. They're both anti control cards, but Hyppies are still useable against decks that, ya know, aren't control. In addition, you desperately need a necro, and probably an edict or two. I'd personally drop 2 null rods for 2 edicts and a phage for Necro.
At least he didn't use Necro AND Reavers.
Hyppies are good. Use them.
Four Core in the board is too much with that mana base - it'll never be more than a bad 4/4 in the matchups where you need it to be a full-on ArtiMoat, coming out too late to do more than block once. And for that effect a Juzam would do you better, and Juzam does NOT belong here.
What I am saying is to go 3 Core and a Sol Ring (D'Avanzo's solution to this problem) or find something better (and good luck with that).
Sol Ring in the sideboard, that sure is interesting. Looks really janky though. :P
Do you guys not run Null Rods maindeck? That's the vibe I'm kind of feeling.
Any other thoughts?
I run them, and think they're godly, but only in the right metagames, and only in the right amounts.
I play with three Rods (SB for casual, MD for competitive environments), which suffices for me. If you want to run Necro, don't do it with Reavers. In my experience, Necro never did anything for me anyway, other than sitting in the way. Necro is too slow for this deck (with Reavers, that is).
I'd take out either Sarcos or Carnophages to include Hyppies. I think you need them, if you ever encounter control decks. They are capable of keeping control down once you reduced their hand with Hymns and Duress. So if you have at least some control decks in your area, play them.
For the same reason, no Edicts at all are a high gamble. I'd put at least two SB, in place of two 'Cores. Contagion and Spinning Darkness do a lot for you against Sligh and other Weenies.
Dozer
edicts are not needed in sui anymore, if you cant take out a morphling player before he lays a morph you dont deserve to be playing sui.
the SB should be strait forward aggro hate, with dystopia.
Edicts not only work against Morphling. They also help in the mirror, against Stacker variants, and a variety of strange encounters (Mask decks...). Null Rods are the better maindeck choice. But no Edicts means you'll lose some games straight away, so I keep them in between deck and SB.
Dozer
Yes edicts means you don't scoop first game agianst anyone playing with creatures and who knows how to play his deck properly. They are better than nothing. Keep them in. I use 3 main, and I'm never dissatisfied.
they are not a must, i dont maindeck or SB them and i dont miss them one bit. people can play edicts but they are NOT needed to beat control. and SB i have better cards to deal with aggro.
Quote:Yes edicts means you don't scoop first game agianst anyone playing with creatures and who knows how to play his deck properly.
k..maybe I should rephrase that....
Edicts HELP you in your first match against aggro more than if you didn't have any form of creature kill maindeck. You think Edict does too little? 2 damage from a pup is sometimes all it takes.
I don't know how to do that quoting thingy properly....so I'll just put in bracket's what you said:
"edicts are not needed in sui anymore"
this is totally false and keep in mind that if a n00b reads that statement he/she will go about building a suicide deck with the mindset that he/she/it doesn't need any kind of creature kill. True, in some cases you don't really have use for creature kill main, but a newb will likely run into problem's with other aggro decks and make this totally false generalization.
In some cases, true maybe you don't need edicts main, like in Wu's metagame wich is apparently 100% control but for everyone else's metagame where they can reliably count on facing atleast 2 or 3 aggro decks then keep in mind that edicts are a viable option.
Even if the Edicts were maindeck, do you think that they will single handedly swing the first game into your advantage, from an evident first game loss against most aggro? Most of my metagame is either Control or Combo though, so there really is no reason to run them maindeck in my version.
k, but if you can fit them in, then they certainly won't make you lose either. What are you gonna do against sligh, race them? Against stompy, outmuscle them? of course not, edicts don't gaurantee a win, but putting them in main doesn't hurt either. Killing one creature does help, more often than some of you say.
Rivrboa : Any tourney results yet?
PeAcE
and rivrboa: I'm not telling you to put them main deck for your version, I just went on that tirade because Wu said that edicts don't belong in sui.
if you use edicts vs aggro it would be better to run maindeck contagions...but the fact is that i like rods maindeck and there is no room for edicts unless i want to weaken myself vs control. if people want strength vs aggro play knives or sligh. sui is for control beats and it does its job very well while not really autolosing to anything(sligh is its worse match but can still be won).
Magimaster can u post ur most current competative sui, im using yours and fever dog's for comparason in a primer if thats ok.
Sure
FrArms
4x Sarcomancy
4x Nantuko Shade
4x Phyrexian Negator
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Sinkhole
3x Diabolic Edict
4x Null Rod
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Will
4x Dark Ritual
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
16x Swamp
SB://
3x Masticore
4x Contagion
4x Dystopia
4x Tormod's Crypt
this is what I use online.
good luck on the primer! I know you can make a good one.
BOTH Edict and Null Rod, but only 12 creatures main? You still call it Suicide?
Wu, I understand your reasoning against Edict. That's why I (finally) put them SB. But I won't ditch them, because sometimes, there are those matchups where Contagion and Spinning Darkness do nothing. For example, against Stacker variants, I usually side out Reavers for three Edicts. And still I won't revert to Knives or Sligh, because playing Suicide is more fun and my healthy break from Keeper (apart from casual R/G beats, that is).
You sometimes have to taste the Dark Side, you know...
FYI, my list is this:
4 Carnophage
4 Flesh Reaver
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
3 Null Rod (--> formerly Edicts)
4 Dark Ritual
17 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
4 Dystopia
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Spinning Darkness
2 Contagion
2 Masticore
(The number of Darknesses and Contagions will probably be 3 + 3, but I am not sure yet. Bolting with Black is just plain cool.)
No power because this is also my tournament deck, and I only have CE jewelery. I like to have the "extra" Swamp instead.
I'm also looking forward to the primer!
Dozer
It's not suicide it's just my latest build.
Dozer--Why Carnophage over Sarcomancy?
Because they are more suicidal?
It's a stupid story - in the beginning I liked Carnos better, until I realized that disenchanting the Sarcomancy does not remove the Zombie. Sad, but true.
I'm looking out for Sarcomancies for a while now, but until I get copies #3 and #4, it's Carnophages for me.
Dozer
i cut out the pic of 4 carnos and taped them onto my sarcos the sacro pic sucks hard.
my current build off the top of my head btw:
4x Sarcomancy
4x Nantuko Shade
4x Phyrexian Negator
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Sinkhole
4x Null Rod
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
4x Dark Ritual
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
16x Swamp (1 lotus in the net)
SB://
4x Masticore
4x Contagion
4x Spinning Darkness
3x Dystopia
i want to add necro again, but i dont know what to remove. maybe 3 cores and necro SB so i can bring in necro + 8 aggro pitchers and SB out will
@Magimaster:
thanks for the info, when im done typing up and screwing arround with the draft ill send in your way
with your creature base the way it is have you ever thought of running keg? you can blast it for 1 to clear the way vs sligh and other 1cc speed aggro
my thought on edict are:
you dont need it to win vs control, and you need contagion, cores, spinningD more to take out aggro. i dont want to replace rods with edicts so i really just dont have room for them the way i play the deck
nix the idea about SBing necro, that was stupid when i think about it now.
* wu looks for the edit button
;)
wu : thanks I'll be expecting it soon, sounds like it's gonna be great.
concerning keg: Keg + Null Rod's = 
heh heh...was trying out another configuration tho...it's the suboptimal build at MTGnews in the knives thread,
and by suboptimal I really mean it
I'm working on it.
about edicts: I did make a thread about replcements for it somewhere, but I never did get a defenite answer to it.
I have changed my mind about the Edicts, i used to feel strongle that you needed a pair in any black deck but i have now replaced them with Shades 3-4 and im happy with it. I dont run Null Rods cuz my metagame isnt that high-powered but its definetly a solid card.
Here we go :
http://forums.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66193
I'm currently tinkering around with replacing the Carno's with Hippies. I never did like cutting the Hippies out of the deck in the first place, there just so damn fun to use.
my carnos are out for hippies after rico bitched @ me enough and they are just much better.
i started typing it up today, 5 freking pages for card choices and explanatoins and thats just maindeck card now for SB
Fever Dog, can you post your current version please? might i use it?
Magi, lol look @ the last post in that thread :D
Fever Dog, can you post your current version please? might i use it?
Magi, lol look @ the last post in that thread :D
wu--PM me a copy of the primer if you get the chance.
P.S. Hippies are working great!