Is Juzam Djinn playable?

Beyond Dominia: The Type One Magic Mill: Is Juzam Djinn playable?

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By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 06:10 pm:

I have a little different approach to type one than most (well maybe not), I like playing decks that are my own creation vs. copying the best deck in type one such as Keeper, BBS (mono blue) etc… I have really attached myself to one card in particular Juzam Djinn. I never see Juzam played these days and kind of feel like I have cornered the market on this guy.
Is Juzam playable in type one? That’s a good question. I know there are "X Knifes" type decks out there and Juzam seems to be a very good card in those builds. But I am not the type to netdeck, and already have my deck that runs Juzam's to my liking so Knifes won't do.

Here is my deck and some reasoning behind a few cards:

DjinnFire (or Juzam Control)

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Morphling
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Time Walk
1 Time Twister
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Misdirection

4 Juzam Djinn
3 Dark Ritual
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mind Twist
1 Diabolic Edict

4 Lightning Bolt

1 Balance

1 Zuran Orb
1 Powder Keg
4 Mox
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
39

4 Mishra Factory
1 LoA
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
4 CoB
4 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island

SB:
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Aura Fracture
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Pyroblast (This slot is open, It used to be a Parish which worked well with the MD mystical, still playing with the slot)
4 REB
3 Obstinate Familiar
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Powder Keg
1 Underworld Dreams (this rocks against combo, you want to draw until the cows come home? Go for it. This may(has) also become a Powder Keg as the Familiar's do the job against combo)
1 Misdirection

I have decided I really like being able to control what happens, to an extent, in a game and am therefore drawn to Mana Drain and FoW. Mana Drain was originally used in my deck to convert countered spells into huge fireballs, I have dropped the fireballs for faster effects now-a-days though.

The key to type one is speed, the faster the better, right? On this note I play Dark Ritual, for the earlier drops of Juzam, along with 4 Mox, Lotus and Sol Ring (which obviously are good for a multitude of things). My only complaint is that late game Ritual is horrible, it combos really well with Yawgmoth's Will for mass mana but for the most part this is the weakest card in my deck. There is nothing worse than drawing a Rit late game when you need answers now. Then again, this rarely happens and I find the bust of speed early game worth the chance of drawing this late game.

Mass creatures are a pain and creatures in general need to be dealt with, or at leased that’s how I feel. I run Lightning bolt as an efficient way to deal with those quick creatures and this is also never a dead card as I can always point it at the opponent for three, as far as one for one trades I also play Diabolic Edict for Morphling and other random Fat I encounter. What about mass removal? I have Balance and Powder Keg for this purpose, while not as effective as Abyss and Moat (well balance can be) these cards seem to do the trick.

My card advantage is Ancestral Recall, Fact or Fiction and good old Time Twister. Now I know time twister has fallen out of favor with a lot of people, but I have tried playing with out it and just am not all that happy running a Merchant Scroll or Stroke of Genius instead, so the Time Twister stays for now.

A few other reasons behind cards choices include Zuran Orb, this card has saved my life so many times! Playing Juzam and 4 City of Brass is a lot of damage and this helps ease the pain, also very good against Sligh/SRB and most Arrgo decks.
Misdirection - is it a 9th counter, direct damage or card advantage? It can be all of these things and more this really helps solidify the deck.
Morphling - Just in case a Moat is cast I have at leased one card that can win it for me, It's an excellent blocker, takes care of flying creatures and Morphling is also the best creature in the game and just too good to pass up.

I run the Mishra's Factory as an uncounterable threat, it also makes a great side kick to Juzam. Really though this is one of the best creatures in Type One, very susceptible to land destruction but well worth it.

Other broken cards include Mind Twist, Yawgmoths Will, Demonic Tutor and Time Walk which really do not need explanation.

Now I was running one Disenchant main deck but found this to be a dead card far to much for my liking. I know Dismantling Blow "cures" the dead card issue, but I preferred the Disenchant strictly because it is faster and easier to cast, it also game me more mana (1W vs. 2W) if I needed it off a Yawgmoths will. I have decided I needed more answers to creatures and the Main deck Disenchant has become a Powder Keg.

I liked the Mystical Tutor because I can use it for a Balance or Mind Twist in a pinch or to go for an Ancestral Recall (but I really like Merchant scroll better for this…).

Now I have been fairly successful with my deck and have played it a lot. The last tournament I played had 52 people (approximately 10 to 20 fully powered decks) and I went 5-2 and ended up fifth place. Before that I was 10th out of 64 and also 5th again out of 50 to 64 people.
At the last tournament I went 5-0, then lost to a mono-blue Battle of Wits deck (don't laugh, it is a great deck!) and to a "New Zoo" featuring Kird Ape, Gaea's Skyfolk, Serindib, Rancor, Unstable Mutation, Wasteland, Lightning Bolt's and other fast goodness. Against the zoo deck I was dead by turn 5 or 6 max and against the mono blue BoW the games were close with me losing the counter war over Battle of Wits game one and a little mana screw game two.

I seem to have the best match up against control or blue based decks, the Lighting bolts come out and become REB's and the Twister becomes a MisD. My worst match up seems to be against fast creature decks such as the zoo above, I can handle Sui-black fairly well.

What do you think? Questions and comments are welcome.


By Will, the Walking Dude (Walking) on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 06:18 pm:

I think that juzam isnt the best creature you could play. If there is no/notmuch burn in your enviornment then negator is better. If there is, then something untargetable would be stornger. In which case morphling would be a good choice. Morphling can do both agro and D, if Mr. J has to play D he will bleed you to death.

Cutting the djinn would let you cut the rits since you wouldn't need double B any more. You admit the rits are bad late game. You could replace them with kegs which give you more board control.


By Gzeiger (Gzeiger) on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 06:21 pm:

Well I've said this before, but I still think your commitment to black mana isn't sufficient to run Juzam over the functional equivalent but more easily splashable Phyrexian Scuta. Juzam definitely gets more style points, but the double-black looks hard to come by without a Dark Ritual, especially when you factor in Wastelands.

I also think pulling Twister against control is the wrong SB decision. Timetwister is at its best against a slower permission deck, especially mono-blue, but also Keeper to some extent. I think it should get boarded out against aggro. Mystical Tutor may be the card to yank against control because of the inherent card disadvantage.

Also, why no Demonic Consultation? I'm not completely sure how the deck plays, but it doesn't look like you have enough search for the loss of random cards from the library to be felt much.


By Azhrei, Paragon of Vintage (Azhrei) on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 06:48 pm:

When a playtest buddy of mine put together a deck with Juzam Djinns, and I felt comfortable paying 12 life to Sylvan Library and still won, we knew something was wrong.

The Djinn is too slow. Black has too many excellent and cheap creatures to warrant using him in a black deck. He's too slow for Suicide, and not efficient enough for Nether Void. The decks he could fit into have other options overshadowing him, and in a multicolored deck I'd rather have a Masticore 90% of the time.


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 06:50 pm:

@ Will: There is a lot of Burn so Negator is not playable, I agree that Morphling is the better creature (how I hate saying that!) but he is more of a control factor vs. the arrgo (speed) that the Juzam provides. I guess what it all comes down to is making a deck that runs the Juzam (to appease me) that is still competitive. I have tried running OSE and just felt bored with it. You are right that Ritual is my bane, I am just struggling with the thought of cutting Juzam so I can cut the rit, ya know? I do see your point on Juzam vs. Morphling, but I am not going for all out control, just a little:)
@Gzeiger: I actually did test the Scuta and came to the conclusion that the loss of three life is just not worth the mana constancy, my win percentage is much better with the Juzam's main deck. You are totally right though I do find my self with a Juzam in hand and one or no black on the table every now and then. Maybe one out of every 15 hands on that same note I find myself being able to cast a first turn Juzam about one out of every 10 hands. The number of times it is probably about even. The nice thing about wastelands is they have to chose to attack my Mishra's or my colors, wait what's nice about that!?:) You are right I am very vulnerable to wasteland/LD I have thought of cutting the single wasteland for a badland to give me that extra black mana and support the SB and bolts better.
You may very well be right about the Twister and Mystical, hmm…actually it is horrible to give arrgo a fresh hand to kill you with, this I know first hand.
I have never tried the consultation, usually when I tutor I go for the one of's i.e. balance, ancestral, zuran orb but I guess the consultation is a bit different, I could use it to get that second black mana via CoB and underground, juzam, mishra, FoW, mana drain, bolt or Volcanic… This could be good, definitely worth a try.

Thanks for the comments guys I have to run…

Z


By Izihobip, Tamer of the Sphinx (Caplan) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 02:58 pm:

Personally, I would play Tainted Pact in this kind of deck before I played Demonic Consultation.
When Consulting for a one-of, you always run the risk (if slight) of it being in your top six cards.
Also, with the Pact, you can find the first solution that pops up instead of slicing of a third of your deck.


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 06:19 pm:

@Az: 12 life to a Sylvan and not threatened? That’s crazy! I believe you, it's just sad… Juzam *used* to be SO good.

I guess you all are right that there are better options than Juzam (i.e Morphling, I do not like Masticore enough to play however). I guess if I dropped 4 Juzam's (and 3 Rit's by default) I could add 2 more Morphlings, and a fireball/tourch. Keeping me at 8 threats, plus three utility spells. Maybe a Teferi's Response, Merchant Scroll and I dunno. The Lightning Bolts work really well with the Juzam's (more Arrgo) but I don't think I am willing to cut them right now. This would defeat my purpose of arrgo/control but I guess you can't have it all! I am torn and will have to think about this. On the other side of the coin, the Demonic consult is not a horrible idea but I have no idea what to cut for this as the mystical tutor serves a purpose as the second balance etc… and the rest of my spells are all key.

The theory behind my deck is early presser via the Juzams and Mishras then counter or negate threats with Mana drain/FoW, Lightning Bolt, etc… or turn control and stop what you can, then wait until you can drop a threat and win. Okay it's not quite that simple but that’s the easiest way to describe it in 100 words or less.

I am really not ready to drop the Djinn just like that, so I will keep tweeking the deck. And the more I look at it I just do not see a fit for consultation (or Pact) any suggestions?


By Rakso, Patriarch & Rules Ayatollah (Rakso) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 08:33 pm:

In this particular deck, given the colors, I'm afraid there's simply no reason to use 4 Morphlings instead of the Juzams.


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:13 pm:

I'm with you Rakso, I like the Juzam better, especially in this deck. I was just thinking out loud, if I drop the djinn I get closer and closer to rOSE and Keeper. I really just want to make my Juzam deck as competitive as possible :)


By Gzeiger (Gzeiger) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:36 pm:

I think maybe what it needs to be a Djinn deck is a good old-fashioned mana curve. If Juzam's worth it for the style points, which I can definitely understand, you may want to actually play an aggro deck. One option is to commit more strongly to black, with a fourth Ritual and Hypnotic Specters over the more controlling elements like Zuran Orb and Powder Keg. The mana base could be shored up by cutting red for Underground Rivers. The Bolts are nice, but could easily be Edicts or more creatures, and I don't know that Red Elemental Blast is THAT much better than a Duress, at least in the sort of deck you'd end up with.

You could also conceivably run Serendib Efreet at the 3-mana slot. It doesn't help justify the Rituals as well as a Specter, but it's less vulnerable to burn and bigger.


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 06:59 pm:

GZ: I like your thoughts on adding specters and the fourth rit, but red is key against blue based control (and mono blue). Therefore I have decided to cut white because with 7 creatures balance is not as effective and it was, and I mainly used it as a hoard sweeper. I have cut 2 Tundra's, 1 Mox Pearl, 1 Balance and the Zuran Orb (I am leery about cutting this especially with more pain land plus Juzam and CoB) and Mystical Tutor (mainly used for balance). I have added 1 underground river, one undiscovered paradise (I only have one underground river and UP is 'tech" against back to basics) 1 Rit, 2 specters and 1 Merchant Scroll (ancestral anyone?). I will try and play test this, this weekend. I also like the above config because I keep the Keg as a board sweeper.

Have a good weekend,

Z

p.s. I have tried the serindib in the past and he does not work well at all for me!


By Gzeiger (Gzeiger) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 02:51 am:

If you like the board-sweeping aspect of Balance, there's still Pyroclasm in your colors.


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 10:11 am:

I have play tested the specters and I do like them a lot! They are a great 3 drop and combo *so* well with the 4 rit:). I also tried phryxian war beasts at this slot and they are horrible, seemed good but to disadvantageous...
I do not like the sound of pyroclasm combo'd with the specters, I guess I could board them out, but then I run into the whole "are 4 rituals justified in my deck" dilemma. So for now powder kegs are filling this slot. I played this weekend and had no mana problems what so ever:).


By Gzeiger, not a paragon (Gzeiger) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 05:03 pm:

Powder Keg rules :)


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 05:41 pm:

Yes they do:) Love the Keg!
I am going to fit an Earthquake in there somewhere (probably SB) as well for the sweeping effect. I really like the feel of my new and improved deck, I wish the specters were bigger but they fit the bill just fine especially with the discard ability. UP is amazing for stabilizing the mana base.
I keep thinking about those duress over the lightning bolts, duress is great against control but weak against arrgo or rather creatures. A bolt could easily mean 5 points from a Juzam by nuking a potential blocking creature or finish the game if it was close enough. While the duress can stop those pesky abyss's or moats even counters from entering play… With my current environment it's a toss up as you can face just about any deck, either way the red will stay in my mana base for the SB. I may added one more Keg (two MD) and three duress, I dunno.
Right now w/o white I really fear enchantments back to basics (the easiest to deal with post SB), blood moon, moat, abyss. My only real answer is Recoil in the sideboard, this is tough to pull off against control and very temporary. The only other thing I can think of is Disk…


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 12:04 pm:

Last night I decided that I would add duress over the bolts, then going through my binder I saw my Fire/Ice sitting there. Hmm, Fire/Ice fits really well in my deck and is still creature kill. So I added 3 duress and 1 fire/ice to be specific. Then once again I thought out the weaknesses of this build. While lightning bolts seemed like such a good idea against creatures, and to quicken the kill. Also duress is a great card but not exactly what I was after.
I have decided that 2 Powder Kegs and 2 Fire/Ice suit the deck much better as both spell can have a sweeping effect and the Ice can be pitched to FoW. I now have 17 blue spells and this makes FoW that much better. I also added the demonic consultation but am unsure of its worth, seems good on paper, but I hate removing my cards from the game and the possibility of decking myself! This slot may change to something else. On the other hand I do have 2 Fire and 2 Keg's so the consultation could feasibly be used to get these cards but it would be risky!
Current build:

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Morphling
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Time Walk
1 Time Twister
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Fire/Ice
1 Misdirection

4 Juzam Djinn
2 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dark Ritual
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Mind Twist
1 Diabolic Edict

2 Powder Keg
3 Mox
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring

4 Mishra Factory
1 LoA
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
4 CoB
4 Underground Sea
1 Underground River
1 UP
4 Volcanic Island

SB:
1 Parish
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Pyroblast
4 REB
3 Obstinate Familiar
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Powder Keg
1 Teferies (sp?) Response
1 BEB
1 Misdirection


By Gzeiger, not a paragon (Gzeiger) on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 02:18 pm:

If you ever actually do deck yourself, then I might rethink my position. I've never actually had it happen, and I stick Consult in just about every deck I make that isn't Keeper or Survival. A deck without massive search capability just doesn't feel the loss of random cards from the library.


By White Knight (White_Knight) on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 07:56 pm:

Green Knight, the idea of mixing juzam (BB in cc) and Morphling (UU in cc) always seemed atrocious. Somewhat it still is, but your deck seems smoother now than it was before.


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:49 am:

Thank you kindly White Knight! This config actually helps a ton, I can even (gasp) hard cast Juzam and Specter now on a constant basis, though this is not as fun as first turn rit/creature:).
You're right about the UU and BB in the casting cost it is tough to pull off, but with the 16 U sources and 12 B (16 if you include the rituals) it smoothes everything out a ton, and the deck is a blast to play. Juzam and Morphling do not play well together, actually the ideal situation is the fast Juzam (first or second turn), and the Morphling is just insurance. I have faced many a deck that scoops as soon as he hits the table. And being as he (she, it, shapeshifter call it what you will:)) is just insurance he becomes very pitchable to FoW. I do not seem to have many problems actually getting the UU set up to back the Mana Drains/FoW. Most off the time all I need is one black source and the two blue so an Underground Sea/River/CoB/UP (or Mox Jet/Lotus of course) and a Volcanic Island is perfect opening hand and if you don't have the two blue you can just drop a Factory and start the early beats if needed.
If anyone wants to try a "different deck from the norm" throw this together and play a few games on appr. You'll have fun, I promise:). Maybe I should name this UBatrocious.dec :)!

Z


By White Knight (White_Knight) on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

Hehe, that sounds a cool name to me:)


By Matt D'Avanzo, Paragon of Vintage (Matt) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 04:07 am:

I think the major problem is that you have aggro elements and control elements, but they don't blend to produce aggro-control. As I see it the problems to fix are...

1. 4 random Bolts aren't enough to be scary, and if they're intended as removal then they are weaker than most real removal cards.

2. Lack of synergy: Timetwister and Hyppie in the same deck? Cards that require UU and BB and the mana base is still 4 colors?

3. Heavy commitment to black, yet lacking most of the things that make black good, like Duress and Hymn. Juzam just seems sort of random in the deck.

4. 2 strips (does no one own a LoA in your parts?)

5. Rituals have little synergy with the majority of the deck.

One random suggestion that might alleviate at least some problems would be to replace Juzam with Scuta. Scuta is infinitely less cool (and the coolness factor of Juzam seems to be your deck's point so this is probably silly to mention), but more splashable. Hyppies BB is still an issue though.

I don't know, I acquired my 4th Juzam a while back and I still haven't figured out a deck to play him in that would make me happy.

This is the best I came up with so far,

4: Ritual, Duress, Hymn, Juzam, Negator, Hyppie
3: Pernicious Deed
1: Ancestral, Walk, FoF, Regrowth, Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoth's Will, Mindtwist, Skeletal Scrying
Mana: 4 Swamps, 4 Bayou, 4 Sea, 2 Llanowar Wastes, 2 City, 3 Moxen, Sol, Lotus, 5 Strips


By Matt D'Avanzo, Paragon of Vintage (Matt) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 04:08 am:

Oh, and I think the Fire/Ice over Bolt is a better call here. I also might try running Chainer's Edict since you look a little removal-light.


By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 06:50 pm:

@ Matt D'Avanzo - Are you looking at my fist deck list? I have changed things around a bit and have built a "stronger" deck in this thread.
1. I really liked the way the Bolts worked as removal/kill, but I have finally "changed my ways" and added 2 Fire/Ice and 2 Powder Keg for the broader sweeping effect. Chainer's Edict is not a bad idea, if only it were an instant, I will have to test it out and see how well it works. Fire/Ice to fill my bolt void nicely.
2. Aside from the Hyppie I run mind twist too! But that’s okay because the twister is a very conditional card that is held back until absolutely necessary. In all honesty I have not had a chance to play test the hyppies that much, but they seem to be well worth it so far. I agree that twister and discard are polar opposites as are UU and BB in the same deck, most of the time all I need is B to be effective with the black spells thanks to our friend dark ritual. On top of that ten of my mana produce U/B and I run the lotus so that’s eleven sources that produce black or blue. Eleven sources it not enough to play BB in a deck? You're right and agree, but I do have the mox and 4 dark rituals and all I need is one black source plus a rit to get my BB. So by my count I have 16 black sources which gives me no problems, okay a small amount but it really is marginal. The chance of a first turn 5/5 just seems worth the risk to me. I know you don't count ritual as a mana source though. Also my mana base has changed to just three colors (see above deck list) and I really feel red is key in blue based control matches, I love REB!
3. Hymn and duress are great cards for black but in my mind force of will and mana drain are better and fill these slots, I can not justify cutting them for black staples.
4. Yes people do run LoA, in an average tournament (50 to 64 people) I will see 2 to 3 decks w/ LoA out of the first 6 or 7 I face. Then I would say about half of the top eight run LoA, but the basis of my deck is creature beats and I can not justify cutting the mishra's factories for wastelands…Actually now that I have added the two specters I could cut one factory for a wasteland and still have a high enough creature count to be effective, I really like the fact that mishra is abyss proof and feel he is stronger than specter though.
5. Rituals, well ritual + Juzam/specter/will/mind twist have great synergy and there's the fourth turn protected Morphling…and umm uh, okay they don't have a lot of synergy. But the power of a first turn Juzam with counter back up is nothing to be sneezed at! The original deck I played with had 3 rituals for this reason. I know the ritual is the weakest card in the deck, but it is a great card, it's just very situational.

I have tried the Scuta and he is HORRIBLE there is a lot of burn in my area and Scuta lost so many games for me. He is not playable right now.

I may very well ditch the consultation, I am still unsure of it's worth and very afraid of consulting for any one of cards! An auto loss by one of my own cards is not acceptable.

I really need to play test this configuration of my deck more. One last note, the SB above has a typo the UP should be a Zuran Orb since they switched places (SB and main deck).

Thank you for the commentary Matt, I will think about what you said over the weekend. I had considered the Chainer's edict in the past (I had forgotten about it though), this is a great suggestion.

Have a good weekend,

Z


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