After a rather lengthy discussion with Matt D'Avanzo about the relative strength of Armageddon in Type One, we came up with a pair of preliminary decklists. They're obviously very un-tuned and therefore reserve the right to suck completely, but here's both a 5-color list and a G/R/W list.
Nukes 'R' Us
4x Gorilla Shaman
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Werebear
4x Call of the Herd
3x Mystic Enforcer
3x Armageddon
2x Seal of Cleansing
4x Orim's Chant
2x Sylvan Library
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Taiga
4x Plateau
4x Savannah
1x Sol Ring
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
Sideboard:
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Masticore
4x Samite Ministration
3x Dwarven Miner
1x Seal of Cleansing
Dead or Your Money Back
4x Gorilla Shaman
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Werebear
2x Mystic Enforcer
4x Duress
3x Armageddon
2x Seal of Cleansing
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Balance
1x Mystical Tutor
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
4x Bayou
4x Taiga
4x Savannah
4x Tropical Island
1x Strip Mine
2x Wasteland
Sideboard: Same as above.
Thoughts, expletives, and threats on my life are all expected :p.
I think the 5 color list is asking for too much. The best Gedddon decks back in the day were usually 2 clors, to minimize the impact of losing all your land on color distribution.
In your top decklist, are 4 Chants that useful? They are ok for forcing through Geddon, but what else do they do that merits 4 MD slots?
I'm trying to think if there's a better way of dealing with Moxen than adding red for Shaman. Maybe Null Rod? (stops keg too) Of course, it hurts your artifact mana too, but you do have birds...
I'd think Tithe would be a strong choice for the deck.
With red in the deck (the first one) I think I would test Overmaster in the Chant slot.
I am liking this thread! I have personally abused Control decks a lot with Chanting out Geddon. Control needs mana it is a fact. Watching people Chumping with Morphlings is fun.
Werebears, the threshold mana buddy is so synergistic!
I like this decks immunity to Null Rods. However, I'd like to see 3 mained or SBed though to make mox-laden opponents squirm just as much as everyone else.
Razor
Razor, why do you feel Rods are necessary when the deck pack 4 Mox Monkeys, or did you miss them? Also, i feel the 3 color decklist is much stronger, Redman is right about color consistency and you could screw yourself pretty badly if you played 5 colors. Im not sure GW wouldnt be better, without Moxen and with Null Rods.
Feverdog, Razor is suggesting that a 2-color version might be stronger, since red is really only there for the Shaman. Playing Null Rod solves Powder Keg and lets you strip to two colors.
I think three is still stable given the multilands available though. You really ought to play at least a pair of Rith's Grove in the 3-color version. Its synergy with Armaggeddon is quite strong, and it's a decent card anyway.
The 5-color mana base utterly baffles me. Unless I really missed something, you made a 5-color deck without Land Grant, City of Brass or Undiscovered Paradise... I hope you're joking. While Land Grant has potentially negative synergy with Armaggeddon, it has another effect, I think much stronger, with the threshold creatures.
I definitely agree about Overmaster over Chant. Chant's kicker vs aggro isn't likely to come up that much with that mana base, and especially given that you want that mana for your creatures, and Overmaster cantrips.
The first list is decidedly superior to the second. It's just simpler. As for Chant over Overmaster, at worst it's an annoyance that keeps them from Twisting/Willing/dropping Morphling on my head. Chant's still decidedly superior to the new Torment cantrip for it's role... a supreme annoyance to control. Overmaster isn't nearly as versatile, and Abeyance doesn't have the possibility of screwing with aggro's head.
The one thing I DO want to get improved is deck number one's mana base. 17 absolute lands is far too few, even with SoLoMoxen to help. Birds are really good, but I'm afraid of them getting offed by Fire/Ice or something similar. Any help in the first deck (the only one under consideration at this point) is appreciated.
Quote:I'd think Tithe would be a strong choice for the deck.
I actually like land tax quite a bit in armageddon. Just an idea though.
The first deck is just 56 cards... sooooo, what are the 4 missing cards?
I've placed tithes over them. They fit perfectly my needs:P
Derf. Yeah, Tithe and/or Land Grant would work wonders.
Boo! 5-colors or bust!
1. Green is a no brainer. Birds, nasty creatures, threshold mana bears, etc.
2. White is needed for the Geddons, so we're stuck. Tithe is a second possibility.
3. Black gives you Duress to push geddon through (and doesn't suck in general like Chant/Abeyance) as well as tutors allowing you to run less than 4 gedons, yet find them reliably when needed. Edicts might also make the cut in some decks.
4. Red gives you Shaman. This is absolutely needed. You want to have moxen of your own or this deck is slow as balls so null rod is out. The ability to lave the opponent moxless when you geddon and STILL have 2-4 mana out is awesome. You might also want Fire/Ice which can cylce or wax opposing mana creatres if that sort of thing pops up in your area. Red gives you REBS fro mthe board which in combo with Duress menas geddons stands a fair chance of resolving.
5. Blue for ancestral and walk (and maybe FoF) can be easily splashed off of Cities, Mox/Lotus, and Birds.
I think with 28 mana and 4 Birds 5 colors (really 4) is a BREEZE.
At the least I would go G/W/R with goodies like Demonic, Ancestral, etc. splashed off of the Birds/Cities/etc. In fact that might wind up being the best version overall.
Very cool thread. I'm still considering possibilities.
Gzeiger, thanks for the clarification on my G-W 3 Null Rod notion (over Mox Monkeys).
Razor
//NAME: Armageddon G-W-r
// Mana Total 39
// Mana Buddies 12
4 Tithe
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Werebear
// Mana Dirt 22
4 City of Brass
4 Plateau
4 Savannah
4 Brushland
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise
// Mana Toys 5
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
// Disruption 13
4 Armageddon
4 Gorilla Shaman
1 Balance
1 Zuran Orb
2 Seal of Cleansing
// Acceleration 1
1 Sylvan Library
// Beats 8 (+ 4 Werebears)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Mystic Enforcer
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Fire/Ice
SB: 4 Dwarven Miner
SB: 3 Defense Grid
Considerations: Enlightened Tutor, Llawan, Ceph.Empress (SB), Null Rods, Ancestral, Walk, FoF, Duress, Tutors, Edict, Jet, Sapphire, Overmaster (main), Taiga, Masticores (SB)
Razor