Nimrod's 5c Oath (Or, how Nimrod likes to kill himself)

Beyond Dominia: The Type One Magic Mill: Nimrod's 5c Oath (Or, how Nimrod likes to kill himself)

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By Nimrod (Nimrod) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 07:28 pm:

Ok, over the past months Ive been tweaking with Oath decks, also this kind of introduction sucks mostly, so, this is the deck

//NAME: Teh Oath (Or Suicide Oath, Boredzor, etc)
// Other Removal
1 Dismantling Blow
// Other Broken Stuff
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
1 Sylvan Library
// Countering
2 Misdirection
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
// Tutoring
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
// Drawing
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
// Creatures
1 Shivan Hellkite
1 Morphling
// Combo
2 Gaea's Blessing
3 Oath of Druids
// Mana
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
4 Tropical Island
4 City of Brass
SB: 1 Spike Weaver
SB: 1 Crater Hellion
SB: 1 Triskelion
SB: 1 Woodripper
SB: 1 Oath of Druids
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Aura Fracture
SB: 3 Phyrexian Negator
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast

And, to PsychoCid and the like, NO, this is not keeper. OSE plays more like keeper than this, prolly.

Ill assume everyone knows how this kind of deck works, so Ill just discuss rather individual card choices.

Stroke and Scrying are there cuz I need to draw cards fast, and I cant afford to take the time to use a Tome or Glass. Stroke is pitchable and Scrying is a cheap instant that gets better if the Oath doesnt reveal a Blessing.

Ive been tweaking with what now is the Brainstorm slot, using a lot of Jank in that slot, and Im quite happy with brainstorm, it gives me instant access to 3 cards, protects cards from discard, helps me get creatures, oaths and blessings back in the library, and raises my blue card count to 21, so, its good.

Shivan Hellkite is excelent, I was very skeptical when I first heard about it, but I tested it and its just great, kills Morphling in combat, pings out Monkeys and Miners (among other random stuff, without a nasty upkeep), and finishes diehard opponents. Ive hardcasted it before, but if I draw it and cant cast it, brainstorm can help there.

Weaver in the SB is tech for the random Jank. Crater Hellion is Suicide SB, Triskelion is token and 1/1 tech (like parfait, but here the SB Pyroclasm looks a lot better).

WoodRipper is tech for Tubbies/Stacker that I have never got to use, but Im very impatient to see how it works out.

2 Aura Fracture, I think needs no explaining, saccin lands is usually not that bad, since they have this tendency to come back that Oath and Card Drawing gives.

3 Phyrexian Negator are the "Transformational" SB tech against control, I need more testing with this, but winning more is not the issue here, but at least making the control match LESS BORING, and I love Negators.

Now, feel free to flame me.


By Nimrod (Nimrod) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 07:35 pm:

Rephrasing: I love Negators that are not named Yan.


By Acolytec (Acolytec) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 11:41 pm:

Looks about as solid as I can concieve of oath looking post restriction. The dragon rules!

If youre going to play any white, throw in the balance. Its quite a wrecking force in oath.

I always found the 3rd critter fairly important, although I also had a tendency to kill myself with self damage and had less tutor power (ie: feeder in the 3rd slot). Tell me how 2 critters works.

Unless I missed it, mind twist goes in the brainstorm slot. Not only do you have the tutoring to dig it up consistantly, it is absolutely necessary for maintaining control game 1, if its not simply broken by itself. I do like brainstorm in oath though if you have room.

I so have wanted to play negators in a control sideboard! OSE in my opinion should definitely be running 3-4 of the buggers sided. Tell me how yanking the oaths works.


By Nimrod (Nimrod) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 11:58 am:

Thanks a lot for your comments, well, I preffer using just 2 critters because it gives me more consistency, and, when I need a solution to Mox Money or Miner, I have a bigger chance to get the dragon (Wich rules all, and morph kills itself for 3 mana, so, its pretty much consistent). They are both also very flexible, as they give both offensive and defensive power.

I have _SO_ wanted to fit in both Balance and Mind Twist, and I would do so if they were blue (I wanted twist so much that I was about to put Amnesia in the Brainstorm slot), but for the reasons Ive already discussed, Brainstorm is still in. Ill keep testing with the slot, tough.

I also had a tendency to kill myself with self damage, look at the name of the topic and one of the names of the deck (Suicide Oath), high tutoring is good; High, RECURSIVE tutoring is awesome, I have got to play like 7 Recalls in just one game just because I want to.

Yanking Oaths is like playing weird post SB Keeper. I miss Yawgmoth's Will.. :<, still, its pretty good, since I mostly see monkeys and miners sided out, and early negators are tech (as are about 17 counters post SB).


By PsychoCid (Cid) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 04:01 pm:

Why on earth would I call that thing Keeper? =P

In general, the deck looks a lot like mine, only, well, worse...and that's pretty bad. :/

You play D.Blow over Balance, Brainstorm over Mind Twist, and don't have Will OR Wisdom. Although you do have Scrying to help make up for it, you also have a lot more cards (specifically tutors) that create card disadvantage. Additionally, you also lack Leaks, to make better use of the land-mox opening, and Feeder, which I have found to be pretty necessary. With all of these differences, you are at a number of disadvantages to both Keeper and various forms of Oath.

I think I'm starting to see why you might think I would call it Keeper, though. This form of Oath is meant to be like BBS with a range of brokenness to make up for lack of FoFs and a worse mana base to pay for it rather than a weak version of 5c Control. Due to the card choices you've made, this deck is more like the latter.

The sideboard has some kinks, too. Between Hellion and Hellkite, Trisk is obsolete. You have zero CoP:Rs or Hydroblasts to help protect from burn...and Negator against control is a neat but unnecessary idea. The entire point of the deck is to outcounter, outdraw (in quantity or quality, if not both), and outrecurse, there by out-controlling. I'd rather side in another Morph and use Oath to just get those, if you wanted to be more aggressive...or Mystic Enforcer. =P Also, you have no back up way to deal with creatures. Since we both run low white components, Control Magic might be the way to go.

A huge problem I forgot to mention already (but have brought up many times in the past) is that you have 4 Mana Drains and only FIVE sinks. This makes it all the worse that you have no Feeder--you'll be burning yourself all the time. If you'd rather call the deck 'Suicide' than play with cards that won't kill you, that's up to you. ;)

You need at least 4 strips. No arguments about this.

Assuming I've covered pretty much everything I meant to, here's my current decklist:

//NAME: PsychOath
// Counters (13)
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
2 Mana Leak
2 Misdirection
// Card Advantage, Etc. (15)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Impulse
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Holistic Wisdom
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind Twist
3 Oath of Druids
1 Regrowth
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Sylvan Library
1 Time Walk
// Creatures (3)
1 Morphling
1 Shivan Hellkite
1 Spike Feeder
// Artifacts (7)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
// Land (20)
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
SB: 1 Aura Fracture
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 Control Magic
SB: 1 Crater Hellion
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Oath of Druids
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Spike Weaver
SB: 1 Woodripper

So far, the Gemstone Mine has been incredible, never ever dying too early. I could also see a second Paradise in that slot, but I prefer Mine, since I've had no trouble, and additional Paradises tend to cause me lots of problems.

As you can see, even before Matt D brought it up, I was already running Impulse instead of Vampiric, but in the case of this deck, also instead of Mystical. Don't get me wrong, though, becase I don't suggest that for any other deck. If you really feel too naked with Mystical, you can easily replace an Impulse with it, but I've never needed or wished for it. Don't cut any blue cards (like Impulse -> Vamp), however, because you need to have 21 (except in some sideboarding cases), and you don't need so much tutoring, especially w/Mystical in. On a side note, for that 1 random Vamp replacement slot, I prefer Whispers for Keeper, but still Impulse, for this deck.

5 UU counters has always been the right amount for this deck, and Leaks certainly pull their weight, if not more.

Obviously enough, I have yet to configure any wishes into the deck, but I don't see all that much need to, since everything is packed in there nicely and I do have Wisdom to avoid running out of whatever resources I need.

I think that just about covers it all, except that, yes, the deck is 61 cards, but there are positively 0 things I can cut, and more or less no reason to cut anything, anyway.


By Acolytec (Acolytec) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 04:25 pm:

Ok the second deck is much better than the first. I do like the idea of siding negators in for oaths potentially still, and am in favor of more pyroclams sb. Other than that, I really cant see anything that I would change offhand. I really hate to give up the drains- how does keeper have enough sinks?? Oath should have just as many minus one for morphling (now that keeper seems to be favoring wish).


By PsychoCid (Cid) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 04:50 pm:

Negators aren't BAD, just so far from necessary that I don't see them to be worth the room. I think the sb really could use a Pyroclasm...maybe two...but over what? A Hydroblast?

As for the Drains-Sinks issue, Keeper has about 5 sinks that Oath doesn't need or want, for various reasons. Those include Braingeyser, Abyss, Yawgmoth's Will, the second Morphling, and in some cases D.Blow. Half the sinks = half the drains. :/ Yes, it's cool to play with higher power, but not when it just doesn't work for you, and altering the deck to make it work does more harm than good.

FYI - Tir ran 3 Drains in his version, even less sinks than I had, and burned himself ALL the time.


By PsychoCid (Cid) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 06:48 pm:

Actually, with the configuration of my deck and the way I must sideboard, I think Keg is a better option than Pyroclasm. It'll take a turn to nuke the weenies, but it also knocks out Cursed Scrolls. Since that slot is for surviving when you don't find that Oath, I need to be able to disable scrolls if I'm not outracing them with a hellkite. Also, since I'm turning a blue card (blue blast) into a non-blue card (Keg/Pyroclasm), it seems that since I have to side in several non-blue cards (CoP:R and the fourth Oath, in addition to the one previously mentioned), this change brings the blue count low enough for me to have to board out the second MisD. 21 is standard, 20 is workable, 19 is too low. Another option is using Fire/Ice, since it is pitchable and still nukes 2 of Sligh's critters, but it doesn't hit Scrolls and doesn't really hurt Stompy much. What do you think?


By Tristal (Tristal) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 08:00 pm:

Would Vampiric Dragon over Shivan Hellkite be a decent idea? Gains the Sengir ability, although it costs 6BR instead of 5RR. Just a thought.


By PsychoCid (Cid) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 08:04 pm:

The sengir pump ability is really irrelevant, and sometimes if they necro and sylvan too low but have a way to kill creatures, the Hellkite's ability to ping an opponent is useful. You could really use either one, but for a few obscure situations, Hellkite is better.


By PsychoCid (Cid) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 08:06 pm:

Plus it costs one mana more, and once in a GREAT while you end up hardcasting it ;)


By Acolytec (Acolytec) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 02:05 am:

I think that nonblue solutions in the sideboard are definitely preferable. If its not blue, a red deck cant get rid of it :) Feeder outraces scroll, and immediate removal is key (since that slot is used against stompy and suicide too).


By Gzeiger, not a paragon (Gzeiger) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 02:26 am:

Why are you not boarding Yawgmoth's Will when you put in Negators?


By PsychoCid (Cid) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 10:34 pm:

Neither Keg nor Pyroclasm are blue, acoly, so...what's your point?


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