Extended Rotation

Beyond Dominia: The Type One Magic Mill: Extended Rotation

By Boltbait, the Master of the Hunt (Boltbait) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:20 pm:

From the Sideboard:

Extended Format Changes
Kyle Murray, Magic Brand Manager

There will be a significant change to the Extended tournament format when Onslaught rotates into play in the fall. Standard has a rotation every 3 sets. Similarly, Extended will have a rotation every 3 blocks. While Standard fluctuates between 4 and 6 sets, Extended will fluctuate between 6 and 8 blocks.

At the initial implementation of this pattern, the legal blocks will be: Onslaught, Odyssey, Invasion, Mercadian Masques, Urza's Saga, and Tempest. Base set editions are counted as being part of the block during which they were released. This means that 6th Edition and 7th Edition will be included in the new Extended format.

As a result, this means that dual lands will be rotating out of Extended on November 1st, 2002, along with the Ice Age block (including Alliances and Homelands), Mirage Block (including Visions and Weatherlight), and 5th edition. In 2005 the Tempest, Urza's Saga, and Mercadian Masques blocks, as well as 6th Edition, will be rotating out.

We believe this new Extended Format rotation policy will result in a healthy and challenging play environment with a greatly reduced need for card banning.

Well, what can I say except that there is now *no* place in sanctioned magic for people that like older cards. For crying out loud, Tempest and Saga were the *Type II* sets when I got back into Magic in 98.

By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:40 pm:

That stinks, but all I can say is we will always have type one. Sure it (T1) is not supported by Wizards, but it is the best format ever and maybe now more people will play type one since they can't use the older* cards in extended. I think the price of dual lands and FoW is about to drop.
Personally all I play is type one so this really doesn't effect me, but to all you extended players that don't play type one: "Come on over the grass is greener here:)". I am sorry about the rotation, but this is right in line with Wizards though. People will need to buy more new cards and Wizards can capitalize on the extended format even more now.
Maybe they will start to print more reasonably costed (lower casting cost) spells and improve the game now? Yeah that’s it, and maybe the next pro tour season will be type one (how I wish).

By Triple S, Paragon of Funker (Sssmwc) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:49 pm:

Trix is finally dead...does this mean they will bring back Ritual since the 'combo' element is gone? Hatred could become viable again if hatred were brought back.

By Izihobip, Harbinger of Doom (Caplan) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:51 pm:

Maybe more people will play Type 1 or at least 1.5

By Mako Satou, Rose among the thorns (Mako) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:05 pm:

All I have to say is Wizards of the Coast really knows how to annoy us old time players. I think that they should have just rotated Ice Age Block out and kept dual lands. They just made the extended format stupid now. It used to be fun cause I could play a 5 color control deck just like in type 1.

I foiled my Extended Oath deck last year thinking it would be around for awhile guess not. that annoys me alot. I guess I have some extra beta dual lands now. I might just convert the deck for Type 1.5 or just keep it around for my cousin to play in Type 1.

"We believe this new Extended Format rotation policy will result in a healthy and challenging play environment with a greatly reduced need for card banning."

What a big load of political trickery


"We know this new Extended Format rotation policy will result in a healthy increase in revenue for Wizards of the Coast with a greatly reduced cost to the Research and Development Department."

To say it like it is.

Hopefully Wizards changes their silly policy. Everyone write Wizards about how ridiculous that is. The whole point was dual lands made it like back when there was revised. Pain lands are horrible. There is enough non basic land hate that dual lands have their own risks without causing one damage to you.

By Green Knight (Greenknight) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:13 pm:

I agree with you Mako especially about the duals!

By Hero t Mannetje, the Dutch Pyromaniac (Hero) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:14 pm:

Hmm....ok. Extended will now become Type 2. Really, not kidding. Let's see what dies now

Blessing's gone, so no more Oath decks.
Trix is gone(too late though)
Fireblast is gone, and with it the last hope for mono red

the list goes on and on it seems.....and the worst of it all..duals are gone, which results in even more crappy decks, which suffer from pain land damage.

I didn't like extended, but now it's a totally sucky format.

By Gizzard (Gizzard) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:51 pm:

First up; happy about this change I am not. Expecting it for a while, I have been; but happy I am not.

> duals are gone, which results in even more
> crappy decks, which suffer from pain land
> damage.

The format is still a huge 6-8 *blocks*; if the Bring Your Own Block format at the Invitational can result in a couple interesting decks (with about zero playtest time invested) I'm sure Extended will have the potential to be interesting.

I wonder if anyone will be excited to play it though; the sad fate of 1.5 makes a point that not all formats generate interest. Perhaps 1.5 will become popular again as a result of the changes to 1.X?

By Triple S, Paragon of Funker (Sssmwc) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:00 pm:

Unless there are PTQs dedicated to 1.5 it won't increase in interest.

By Will, the Walking Dude (Walking) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:18 pm:

Don't just accept this. Last time they rotated 1.x they were going to tkae the duals away. The protests were so great they relented and kept the duals in the format. I know I am sending every person at wiwards a not saying "ice age can go but if the duals leave I'm quitting magic."

By Will, the Walking Dude (Walking) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:24 pm:

Incidentally, I won't really quit, but it never hurts to send a message. Randy Buehler and Mark rose water both have email addresses at the bottom of their articles on www.magicthegathering.com, they probably didn't make this choice, but they are high up and somewhat influential, they are also the people who talk to the public. Flood their inboxes with threat of quitting and policy will change.

By Vegeta (Vegeta) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:36 pm:

Adding to what has already been said. Wow. This is beyond stupid. 1.x will be one of the worst formats if this happens. Taking the Dual Lands screws over tons of decks. Ice Age and Mirage leaving will also nail a bunch of older cards in decks. Oh well... Wizards once again screws up.

yes balance.... like it was all that bad now. Or hell even 2 years ago.

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:46 pm:

Ok, so basically what happens is that Extended becomes old Type 2? Of course it isn't even real old type 2 which I enjoyed, back when it was just Fallen Empires through Alliances. Ah well.

On a side note, I really hope that if this does happen, I can convince some old extended players into 1.5, though I don't know that it will happen. I can't remember the last time I saw a 1.5 tournament _anywhere_, sanctioned or not.

Btw, brillant translation Mako.

By Jeffrey (Jeffrey) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 08:17 pm:

Guys this may be a window of opportunity for the vintage magic community. Allot of extended players are going to be pissed about not being able to use their duals, FoW, etc. Encourage the to play T1 or T1.5!! This is our chance. Ask your local magic shop to hold a 1.5 Tournament. One of the main reasons that extended was so popular was that it gave people a chance to use non-T2-crap cards, yet still not have to sink $2,000.00 into a winning deck. I think that T1.5 can take over this role. It's not "real" magic, but it's pretty dxmn close.

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 08:35 pm:

T1.5 4L

By AHappyClown (Clown) on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 11:13 pm:

WoTC is complete and utter SH*T!

I now have a personal vendetta against Wizards.

Thus begins my boycot of Constructed and Limited formats.

LONG LIVE TYPE 1!!!!!!!!

By Cuandoman (Cuando) on Saturday, May 18, 2002 - 01:19 am:

Check out Misetings thoughts:


That seems more like what they WANTED to do.

By Ufactor, Paragon Learner (Ufactor) on Sunday, May 19, 2002 - 09:22 pm:

Amen, Redman!

By Mako Satou, Rose among the thorns (Mako) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 10:51 am:

Who do I email about this? Post emails please.

The attactiveness of Extended is the multi color nature that it is possible to make any deck you want with out painlands. There were enough anti non basic land hate in the form of wastelands, back to basics, price of progess which was in the format to make a disadvantage to playing the dual lands. The painlands are not a replacement, at least not until there is no Price of Progress, Back to Basics or Wastelands. One does not need the disadvantage of pain or come into play taped and then still have to deal with non-basic land hate cards. This just killed multi color decks.

They also should rotate only one block out at a time. Last time they only rotated out a couple sets.

If they do not keep dual lands in Extended and the type 2 situation does not get better with Onslaught. My whole play group will be only playing Type 1 come Bovember. Thats a shame cause we buy by the case to get foils.

By Rakso, Patriarch & Rules Ayatollah (Rakso) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 10:55 am:

God God, Mako, how rich are you people? :p

I'd note, though, that multicolor decks like 5-color Donais came from the Mirage-Tempest Type II, and present Type II has quite a lot of 3-color decks (but that's also because nasties from Wasteland to Dust Bowl are not there).

By Mako Satou, Rose among the thorns (Mako) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:11 am:

New idea

Actually Wizards is concerned about making money which is why they rotate extended. They could make a chronicles II with all the older cards from extended that was labeled as not type 2 legal. This would make duals and whatever else accessable to all and make money at the same time.

Casual players would love it too.

If they do this they could keep dual lands and make us happy and still make money. If they really must rotate the sets out they should do it one block at a time. 2 or 3 Blocks leaving at once is quite a big change in card pool.


My friend runs a card store anything that isn't a foil we want gets sold off as singles. We all split the cost for the case so it doesn't end up being that much since it is at cost.

By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 12:48 pm:

Mako--good idea, though not new. I've been suggesting that forever. Chronicles 2, all stars of magic. As long as the set isn't in any way changing what is legal in any format, why stop with the good extended cards though? Why not include the t1 staples as well. How many packs would they sell if you might open one and get commons like hymn, bolt, rancor, sinkhole, counterspell, flying men, and stone-throwing devels; hyppie, jackal pup, and mana drain for your uncommons, and a foil p9 card or library of alexandria as your rare. They would FLY off the shelves, and it would breathe new life into the older formats. The only reason not to is that they'd have to trash the reprint policy. The reprint policy isn't really helping them anymore though. It's not good for players, even those (like me) who own p9. I actually consider the value of my old cards diminished by the fact that it's almost impossible to get a type one game in rl. The only way to run a good t1 tourney these days (one that draws more than a few people on a recurring basis that can compete on a roughly even footing) is to allow proxies, a practice which (like apprentice) annoys the moneygrubbers at wizards, because they can't make their cut on it. Even though my cards would be losing value in theory if they get reprinted, it wouldn't matter to me, since I have no intention to sell anyway. It wouldn't have any effect on collectors, since they aren't selling either, just collecting. A reprint doesn't change the value of the older card for a collector--it just makes it a bit cheaper and easier to come by since some of the demand for the older cards from players will be drawn off. The only ones that lose from a reprint are speculators and singles dealers who have lots of the old cards in stock. As for the speculators, I have little sympathy for them. They don't really contribute much to the magic community, and if they lose on their "investment", tough for them. I hate to see singles dealers get hosed, but none should take it too hard so long as they are moving their
stock and not keeping too much in their inventory. In fact, an increased interest in t1 would set off a flurry of buying and selling the cards (people who are willing to play reprints selling off their old cards and vanity players and collectors snapping them up) off of which they could make back their losses. Retailers would benefit from the huge sales the set would generate. It would draw off some sales from the new t2 expansions, but the total sales would still be significantly better than they would be if they just printed an eighth or ninth edition of the basic set that nobody needs or wants. The set should be white-bordered and with completely new art. This would retain as much collectability and vanity players' appeal for the old cards as possible. Besides, I think we'd all like to see some of the cool new artists take a crack at the old classics (and given free reign to make ART, not tied down by lame comic book storylines). They could even hype the set (as if it would need it) by letting Maro do a popularity poll--who gets to paint Black Lotus?
I know this will never happen, but it should. The reprint policy was originally devised in order to assure people that their cards would retain value. Problem is, it's not really working for anything except the old power cards. If they reprinted dual lands, it wouldn't hurt the value of duals any more than they were hurt by rotating them out of the format where they got played the most. If you buy cards today, you can pretty much bank on the fact that their worth is going to take a hit when they leave t2, and that it's going to take another hit when they leave extended. This effect would be mitigated if there were stable, non-rotating formats that could use the cards indefinitely. So reprints and tourney support to prop up such stable formats would only enhance the long-term value of the cards they're printing now.

By Milton (Milton) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 01:25 pm:

I guess I'm the only one who thinks this is a good idea. Recently in my area many people have gotten fed up with the expensive and stagnant nature of both Type 2 and Extended. Many people are quitting Type 2 and moving into Type I. I have seen more new faces at the tournaments than ever. People I have never met are asking me advice on deck builds, everything from White Weenie to Sligh to Suicide. There are more Type 1 tournaments now than there were two years ago. In fact, this year Gen Con has FIVE Type I tournaments, including a $250 event. Last year there were two.

People becoming fed up with Extended and Type 2 is good for our community. Many players will threaten to quit, but will be drawn to us. If we sell our format the way we should, if we are embassadors for Type I (helping the kids with deck builds, pestering store owners about tournaments and making sure people show up when the store runs type I events), then our format will only benefit.

Sadly, though, I think this shift will make Extended only more popular. In my perception, just as Type I has evolved into those who have Moxes and those who don't, it seems as though Extended has evolved into those that have duals and those that don't. Now that duals are out, many more will be encouraged to join. Also, a fresh format always brings bitching and gripes, but in the end it almost always rejuvinates the game.

By AHappyClown (Clown) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 01:50 pm:

You know, this whole thing reeks. Yeah, in order to avoid further card bannings, they just ban every set.

Wizards will never print "Chronicles 2". That would breathe too much life back into Type 1. As I suspect, Wizards is trying to kill Type 1, and my suspicions become more concrete (at least to me) after hearing the "official" comments on the Worldgorger Dragon issue.

All I wanna know is who do I write to about this issue?

By White Knight (White_Knight) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 02:24 pm:

At first I was, and still am, quite pissed off about the extended rotation, since it's one of my favourite formats, but now I'm actually looking forward it. I don't like the way how the recent extended has been turning up, and a change might be actually some good!

I hope...

Either way still we're loosing some GREAT extended cards: duals, mirage fetch lands, vampiric, mystical and enlightened tutor, tithe, FORCE OF WILL, swords to plowshares, natural order... but even I'm curious about seeing what's going to come up now;)

By Gzeiger, not a paragon (Gzeiger) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 02:30 pm:

Well, Oath isn't quite dead. Although the traditional CounterOath isn't playable anymore, there are still viable Oath of Druids decks, either Seth Burns' AggrOath (http://www.brainburst.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=464) or a new one with Holistic Wisdom and Judgment's Battlefield Scrounger. I think a blue aggro configuration is possible that might even still play Morphlings.

By Redman, Relentless Leader of Scrubs (Redman) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 02:57 pm:

Re: Chronicles II

If they did do that, I think they'd have to choose a different name. As I remember it, the orignial Chronicles was pretty much a reprint of all the _bad_ cards from older sets (Ehrnham Djinn excepted). I'd be all for the idea myself. I wonder how many people you could get behind it. Key of course is coming up with a concrete proposal, as the biggest flaw I've seen in these reprint ideas is argument among the would-be supporters.

By White Knight (White_Knight) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 05:56 pm:

Yeah, now that Oath loses gaea's blessing and with aggro probably getting stronger most probably we'll see g/w oath decks with mystic enforcer. That's a cool thing:)

By Tracer Bullet, Better than Spiff (Tracer) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 06:36 pm:

There is NOT going to be any major form of control after the shift.

Mark my words.

By Jacob Orlove, aspiring paragon (Orlove) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 08:32 pm:

Well, we could have counterphoenix, or orims prayer/humility, 2 tempest-era (read: extended) control decks.

There's also stuff one can do with ensnaring bridge, or lots of counters, or (ugh) stuff like some of the current type 2 builds.

By Razor (Razor) on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 10:02 pm:


FYI about every three months in Kitchener, Canada dejavugames.com holds a Type 1.5 tourney. 162 players entered the last one; it was the best tourney I have attended since starting in 1994.


By Godder (Godder) on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:50 am:

White Knight: The Mirage Block tutors were reprinted in 6E.

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