Should Keeper SB out Force of Will's vs Sui Black

Beyond Dominia: The Type One Magic Mill: Should Keeper SB out Force of Will's vs Sui Black

By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 09:54 am:

At the Sunday T1 Tourney at Collector's Casche ( a premier store in Kansas) were I placed 1st, I faced 2 suicide Black decks.

My SB is really anti Creature, so I Sb'ed out all 4 of my FOW's as an expierement, bringing in the aggro kill.

It payed off, but is this a wise move?

I was nervous, but the constant card disadvantage that the FOW was giving me vs sui was disturbing, I was also nervous though, about the lack of the FOW's but it payed off.

Here is my SideBoard: (15)
Red Elemental Blast: 4
Blue Elemental Blast: 1
Diabolic Edict: 1
Swords to Plowshares: 2
Powder Keg: 1
Moat :1
Abyss: 1
Circle of Protection: Red: 1
Tormod’s Crypt: 1
Aura Fracture: 1
Dwarven Miner: 1

I would SB: + 2 plow, +1 Edict, +1 Abyss, +1 Moat, +1 powder keg, -1 miner, -1 impulse, -4 force of will.

I also run 1 abyss MD so I had lots vs aggro. This left me with only a misdirection MD as a pitch.

What is all of your opinions?


By Azhrei, Paragon of Vintage (Azhrei) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:07 am:

I'd personally NOT want to have a Powder Keg in hand over a FoW when facing a Ritual-Negator.

By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:13 am:

Good point, but what about having a plow in hand instead?


By Steve O'Connell, King of Metaphors (Zherbus) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:15 am:

In my experience, you keep FoW in to basically protect the devistating cards youll bring in. It forces them to basically have use 2 discard spells to get to said card.

Now, lets say they ritual-duress-hymn turn one...You can't do anything about that no matter what, short of misdirection if they choose to instead take the abyss/moat/bridge and in my case twister (I side it in vs. mono black).

Typically, however, their play will be a simple swamp-duress, or mox-swamp-hymn. In which case, while holding one of the aforementioned cards and a FoW plus another blue card, you can FoW and keep the spell in your hand at least until the next discard comes along.

Once an Abyss, Moat, or a Bridge hits play, you make up for lost card advantage while his critters stare at your with hate in their eyes, unable to penetrate your defenses.

I, myself side in these:
+1 Timetwister
+1 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Compost

By Will, the Walking Dude (Walking) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:34 pm:

I think you need force to keep your mana safe easrly game. In addition to wastelands and stuff (which you cant counter) there are sink holes. Abyss won't help you if they dont let you get to 4 mana, even drain won't help if they can keep you at just one blue. Since it takes 2 turns for your mana drains to come online you are vulnerable to mana denial without force.

By Bad Player Meyer (Jpmeyer) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:57 pm:

I would cut Shaman, Miner, Tome, D-Blow and maybe Stroke for everything you listed above except the Edict.

By Gizzard (Gizzard) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 03:51 pm:

> I would cut Shaman, Miner, Tome, D-Blow
> and maybe Stroke for everything you
> listed above except the Edict.

Its an interesting question. I assume that the Suicide is playing with some artifact you fear (Null Rod?) so that you dont feel comfortable removing your D-Blow and Shaman? Thinking about it though, Shaman would cost 5 to kill the Null Rod and D-Blow 3; it would probably be better to have the FoW in hand in these two cases.

Definitely, I'd cut anything that costs 4 or more like Tome and Stroke. I'd definitely try to keep the Impulses in; this is the sort of matchup they are incredible in.

It might be possible to cut this stuff above and then cut 2 FoW in order to fit in the anti-creature cards. I think the crux of the matter is the question "What are the 2nd-6th worst cards in my deck against Suicide?" And the answer probably does include some number of FoWs.

By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 04:43 pm:

The sui black decks in my area run 4 cursed scrolls.

that scares me with no shaman ect.

Plus shaman is a chump blocker, as well as an answer to the ocasional; mox, defence grid, disk( yes 9 mana to kill it!), rack, or sol ring.

I never SB out stroke or geyser against sui, but can see tome over the impulse.

honestly the early mana jack is all that i was really fearing with no fow, that and a well times yawg. will, if i could not finf a counter.

i like timetwist against discard, and control (as a way to try and get ontop of a failing situation) but yanked it out for more creature fill (keg / moat to be more specific) after a few bad situations using it.

On a side not, i love the 2nd abyss in the SB, as it is one hell of a topdeck against sui/ aggro, and i have never seen multiples in a situation that did not help.

its cool for a sui player to get really confident, and start to overextend after duressing abyss #1, assuming you have no other.



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