Demonic Consultation : Yay or Nay?

Beyond Dominia: The Type One Magic Mill: Demonic Consultation : Yay or Nay?

By Magimaster (Magimaster) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:57 am:

Demonic Consultation
B, Instant, Ice Age Uncommon
Name a card. Remove the top six cards of your library from the game and reveal the next card to all players. If it is the card named, put it into your hand. If not, remove that card from the game and continue revealing the top card of your library and removing it from the game until the named card appears.

ORACLE TEXT : Name a card. Remove the top six cards of your library from the game, then reveal cards from the top of your library until the named card is revealed. Put the named card into your hand and remove all other cards revealed this way from the game.

Illus. Rob Alexander

Okay, there was a debate going on in another thread about this card...but I feel that the topic alone is more than worthy of its seperate thread.

This is only for people who have used this card, understand it fully and know how to use it properly.

And people who say consult sucks just cuz it killed them 3 times in a row, you don't count because it's obvious the bad luck biatch has bitten you or whatever, and frankly I want you far away from me as possible, I want to get home safely tomorrow.

so the questions stands,

Usable in suicide or not? (and state reasons why, BAD LUCK DOES NOT COUNT)

By Tracer Bullet, Better than Spiff (Tracer) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:10 am:

Instant speed tutoring at no card disadvantage. The odds of losing to a bad consult when consulting for a 4 of are damned near miniscule. The power out weighs the risks.

Magimaster, I'd reccomend you tone down your attacks here. You're not proving anything new, and you'll only show off what an ass you can be provided the opportunity.

By Magimaster (Magimaster) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:25 am:

sorry...something..made it.

I'll stop.

By Magimaster (Magimaster) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:35 am:

Hey guys..looking back, I guess I'm kind of being an ass...

just ignore this thread, I don't mean any implied messages I wrote in here anymore.

*wishes there was some way to delete threads*


By FeverDog (Feverdog) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:47 am:

I will repeat myself just so we are clear. I never had any problem with you Magimaster, as far as im concerned we both just got caught up in the argument and started taking it too seriously. Peace.

By Magimaster (Magimaster) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:51 am:

Agreed. No harm intended.


By Stephen Menendian (Smmenen) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 10:59 am:

This is THE BEST TUTOR. There is a reason this was restricted.

I am still amazed that people would ever consult for stupid stuff. Anyone who consults for a lotus or a Yawg Will deserves to lose.

I almost always tutor for a Dark Ritual. Sometimes a duress. It is worth mentioned that once in a while I will tutor for a Lotus if it is only the first game of a match, or if I won the first game and I am playing something explosive like the mask deck. But I would NEVER, EVER, EVER consult for Yawg Moth's will.

The demons hate me.


By Do-Man, the Apprentice (Doman) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:00 pm:

Consult is AWESOME. You just need to know what NOT to consult for. It does backfire sometimes, but that is the power of the dark side.

By Steve O'Connell, King of Metaphors (Zherbus) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:01 pm:

I like it. Alot.

By BeBe, the Redeemer (Bebe) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:45 pm:

I have consulted for Rituals, Rods, Duress and Negators (won a tournament in Ottawa with Sui and Consult was awesome).
I have only once regretted consulting but I might have lost anyway so...

By Superman on dope (Dope) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:05 pm:

I'll ignore your being an ass, Magimaster. I already replied to you in the previous thread, before I saw this.

I repeat, I will never, ever run Consult, but I'm not against anyone who does and have never called it a bad card. The card just doesn't agree with me it seems. Consult is a good card to some, and a great one to others. I for one just don't seem to need it and want to avoid risky cards on the whole. And yes, my bad experiences with it have affected my judgement of the card a tad. Don't let that affect yours though.

By Jacob Orlove, aspiring paragon (Orlove) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:48 pm:

Iirc consult decided the crucial game of one world championship match...for the other player. Justice (I think) got his 2 rituals to drop the ihsahn's shade he needed to recover from balance, but none of his last 4 cards were land. Still, if he had cast just ONE consult, he prolly would have been okay.

A little hint to casual players(because you're the only ones who will ever see 2 consults in one hand): don't cast 2 consults for the same card simultaneously. :)

By Jacob Orlove, aspiring paragon (Orlove) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:49 pm:

Oh, and yes, consult is pretty good.

By Mako Satou, Rose among the thorns (Mako) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 03:01 pm:

Demonic Consulation is fine to use if you are Tutoring for 3 or 4 of card.

By CF (Cf) on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 04:24 am:

I'd consult for a 1-of if it seems like I only have a narrow window to play the spell and it will win me the game. A 1-of powerful enough to Consult for in black is Necro - which will only lose you the game if it's among the first 6 (granted, if it is the last card you're not in great shape, but you won't lose by drawing yourself to death :o)


By Steve O'Connell, King of Metaphors (Zherbus) on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 05:35 am:

Right CF. Its like if your gonna lose anyways, just sell your soul and maybe your get something that will swing the game around.

By Tracer Bullet, Better than Spiff (Tracer) on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 08:22 pm:

The few cards I'll 1-of tutor for playing my Pox-

Yawgmoth's Win- If I know it will win me the game, or if it can keep me from losing.

Balance-See above. There are those 3 Rack draws when all you need is balance.....

Nothing else. I don't see the logic in tutoring for Necro, as you'll want to have as many cards as possible to draw. Dunno, maybe that's just me.

By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 12:19 am:

I've played demonic consultation---a lot. When demonic consultation and survival left extended, I had never played an extended deck without one of those two cards (except for high tide one time). I played weekly extended (including PTQs and a couple PTs) for a couple years before that and went through many decks, so that's really saying something. In all that time, I've only once seen someone lose to a bad consult.
I was playing green tide against Bryce Currance with trix. Game 3. He had to pitch a donate to a force of will early on. A few turns later, he had to consult for another and passed the other two (out of only three total) in the first six. Waiting a turn and necro-ing to get what he needed wasn't really an option, because I was poised to go off on him. So that was just an ass luck consult.
Once I was playing slivers and was forced to consult for a city of brass early on. After losing a couple in the first six, I didn't get one until about 10 cards remained. I ended up getting decked, but I don't think I would have won that game even if I had more cards in my library. I think I decked pat (tracer) once in a similar game--the long consult just meant I didn't have to kill him some other way.
On the other hand, I can name countless consults that have won games. Several times I've consulted for a single card in my deck and always come up a winner. I've played against someone who consulted for their burly protector and beat me with it. My favorite consult experience was probably PT Chicago. I was playing fruity pebbles (lots of tutors, no counters or necro). Worth Wollpert was playing hatred. Game 3. I consulted for a tithe early on and lost a couple of goblin bombardments. He duressed and unmasked the other two. He urged me to concede, but I didn't. His trash talking went into overdrive. The demons apparently didn't appreciate it. I consulted for an argivian find (only had one left in the deck) and the demon gave it to me--card #7. I found and played a bombardment. After a couple more turns of little black men beating me up, my back was to the wall. I needed an enduring renewal or a rector to win. I drew consult #3. With about fifteen cards left and one enduring renewal, I consulted and gave a big sigh of relief when it didn't show up in the first six. It ended up in the last couple cards. So after consulting the demon three times, I had virtually no library (and no life), but he went from twenty to zero that turn, so it all turned out well.

By Dandan (Dandan) on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 12:27 pm:

Yes to Consult

Coming soon:
Is paying 1 life for a card when you have Necro out worth it?

By Tracer Bullet, Better than Spiff (Tracer) on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 11:12 pm:


By Matt D'Avanzo, Paragon of Vintage (Matt) on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 03:11 pm:

Damnit! I was JUST going to post something almost exactly like that!

By Dandan (Dandan) on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 03:20 pm:

Now I'm scared. Matt agreed with something I said.

By Ktulu, the Resident Ninja and Bodyguard (Ktulu) on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 02:30 am:

Consult is definitely in my black decks. Playing old-school Necro with 4 Necro and 4 Consult let me get any card I needed whenever I needed it. I still have 5 Consults left. My hand always depends how I use them. If I get lots of discard but little land, I consult for a Dark Ritual. If I get land and discard but no creatures I consult for a Negator. It's such a flexible card, it can allow you to get whatever you need whenever you need it, at instand speed no less. What a bargain!

By Dandan (Dandan) on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 02:40 am:

Lets not get started on Bargain!

By Rakso, Patriarch & Rules Ayatollah (Rakso) on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 07:53 am:

Some people claim that Demonic Consultation is a great card, but I think it's too much trouble.

I mean, in real life, you have to sort your deck into three piles (library, grave, rfg) and it's just too big a hassle you know?

By CrazyCarlWinter (Carlw) on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 03:11 pm:

once, playing extended, I consulted FOUR times playing Countersliver, I won that game with about 5 cards in my deck ;DDD

But anyways, Consult is definately a must.

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