Post Banning Counter Sliver (Request for Comments)

Beyond Dominia: The Type 1.5/1.X Magic Mill: Type I.X Mill Archive: Post Banning Counter Sliver (Request for Comments)

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By Tim Ray (Tim) on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 12:55 pm:

I think counter sliver is not dead, even without Consultation. What I need is advice from those who are interested in the deck. Here's what I put together after I wiped away the tears from deconstructing my Survival deck:

Slivers rev. 0.7
4 x Crystaline Sliver
4 x Hibernation Sliver
4 x Muscle Sliver
4 x Winged Sliver
3 x Acidic Sliver
4 x Birds of Paradise
4 x Force of Will
4 x Opt
4 x Eladamri's Call
2 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Seal of Cleansing
4 x City of Brass
3 x Gemstone Mine
1 x Undiscovered Paradise
4 x Tundra
4 x Underground River
1 x Taiga
1 x Tropical Island
1 x Savannah
1 x Scrubland
Sideboard:
3 x Energy Flux (vs. heavy artifact)
1 x Seal of Cleansing (4th)
2 x Questing Phelddagriff (vs. Oath)
1 x Order of The Sacred Torch (vs. Black)
3 x COP: Red (vs. Sligh and SRB)
2 x Victual Sliver (vs. red)
2 x Meddling Mage (vs. other Slivers)
1 x Sliver Queen (vs. other slivers)
Instead of Consult, the deck uses Eladamri's Call to find the sliver you need, and to get the one-of and two-of critters in the SB.

I'm unsure on the land mix; I don't have any flood plains, but might run some (they seem to be a feature of Sliver decks). I'm also not sure about the Birds, but they would seem to be a decent choice.


By DE on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 01:02 pm:

Consult -> Call is not 100% clean, but its the obvious card. Birds look wrong, you may want to try Mox Diamond (as you've broken the no enchantment / artifact advantage anyway).


By Tim Ray (Tim) on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 01:13 pm:

Interesting. I'd rather run Flood Plain than Mox because of the fragility factor. If I replaced 4 x Birds with 4 x Mox, I would not have enough lands to support them. If I replace 4 x Birds with 4 x Flood Plains, I thin my deck by four cards and don't have the fragility of the artifact.

I suppose Seal could be Disenchant; that would mean no disenchant targets main deck. Thanks! You made up my mind about Flood Plains.


By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 02:26 pm:

Countersliver certainly isn't dead, though it is weakened slightly by losing consult and weakened slightly more if the metagame shifts away from combo decks (aggro control decks like merfolk and slivers like to beat combos). Opt isn't very good. Impulse is better. I might even be inclined to add regular old UU counterspells, since you don't have any. Flood plains are great, since you need various colors, and you don't really have many 1-drops anyway. Birds can be good, but they also give your opponent targets for his creature removal, which he can't use if you get crystalline (or can't use as well if you have the hibernator). I don't think that eladamri's call is the way to go. Don't try to "replace" consult. Eladamri's call isn't all that amazing. Usually, you didn't consult for creatures anyway. The call is just a bad survival. If the creature-attack decks start to become more common, worship will be very good--maybe even a couple maindeck. As for disenchant vs. seal, seal was better against trix, but I think more people will play disenchant now. Turn 2 seal won't be a good play very often like it was vs. trix.


By Tim Ray (Tim) on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 03:43 pm:

The idea with the Call was to make sure you could find the right slivers by turn 4. Second turn crystaline, third turn Muscle or Winged (and Opt at the enemy EOT or Flood for a U or W dual), fourth turn Call and play Winged or Muscle, attack for 5. The Call will change the way CS runs, because before you could Consult for whatever you needed, but now, you have to either just draw it or make sure it's a creature-based answer. I'm going to like having Order of The Sacred Torch around to stop Massacre, and Questing Phelddagriff for Oath.

I liked Opt because it's a first turn play, and a third turn play (after or before you play a Sliver). Impulse (which is a much better card than Opt) is also 1U, which just doesn't fit.

I think you're right about Seal/Disenchant. Thanks.

I think of the Call not a bad Survival, but as a good Worldly Tutor.


By BrianB, the Patron of Elves and Silly Combos (Brianb) on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 07:54 pm:

If you really want to milk the call, you could play a sex monkey and a realist instead of 2 disenchants. And why not run 1 queen maindeck? You might find that with birds, she's not too tough to cast--you can fetch her with the call, and she can be a real gamebreaker in a lot of matchups. 1 Victual could go main, too. It helps you win damage races and at worst, it's a 2/2 sliver for 2 mana.
Worship will be a good sideboard card for your version. You will be able to keep a sliver on the table, and with birds, it should almost always come out quick enough to save you.


By IvoryGargoyle on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 08:02 pm:

This is what I have worked out so far for CounterSliver:

3 Flood Plain
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
2 Gemstone Mind
4 City of Brass
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Crystalline
4 Hibernation
4 Muscle
4 Winges
3 Acidic

4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Disenchant
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm/Impulse
2 Dromar's Charm

Basically the older version with Brainstorm/Impulse instead of Consult and with Dromar's Charm.


By DE on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 06:01 am:

With only 23 lands, Brainstorm better than Impulse.

Sadly the Plowshares are slightly 'orphaned' as you have no search and are playing with Dromars Charm as well. CounterSliver doesn't like stalling, hence the Consults. The odd StP wondering into your hand on turn 12 is unliekly to be useful. Maybe try 3/4 Charms; you can probably run them without too much trouble.


By Tim Ray (Tim) on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 10:29 am:

I think I'll explore the "Call of The Slivers" version. How do you call a sliver, exactly? Like you call a hog? Like you call a turkey? Eladamri knows, I guess...
SliverCall
4 x Crystaline Sliver
4 x Winged Sliver
4 x Hibernation Sliver
4 x Muscle Sliver
2 x Acidic Sliver
1 x Victual Sliver
1 x Sliver Queen
1 x Monk Realist
1 x Uktabi Orangutan
20 Slivers
4 x Eladamri's Call
3 x Swords to Plowshares
1 x Disenchant
4 x Force of Will
4 x Portent
16 Spells
4 x City of Brass
3 x Gemstone Mine
1 x Undiscovered Paradise
4 x Flood Plain
4 x Tundra
2 x Underground Sea
2 x Savannah
2 x Volcanic Island
22 Land
Sideboard
1 x Uktabi Orangutan
2 x Disenchant
1 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Oath of Ghouls
1 x Questing Phelddagriff
1 x Victual Sliver
2 x Meddling Mage
1 x Order of The Sacred Torch
3 x Energy Flux
Portent is pretty good at finding lands; Impulse is better, but costs 1U. All the duals are searchable with the flood plains. The SB fills in the holes in the rest of the deck. Oath of Ghouls is for permission decks; Energy Flux is for heavy artifact decks. The suggestion to make some utility searchable is a good one; thinking of cutting one STP for a Bone Shredder.


By Fickle Efreet on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 05:09 pm:

I see no point in Victual Sliver with Trix leaving extended. And I wouldn't bother with Sliver Queen either but then again I don't play with calls.


By Tim Ray (Tim) on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 05:41 pm:

Victual Sliver is good against burn, I'll bet. We'll see. If it sucks really bad, I'll dump it for Worship or something.


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