Well I posted a deck like this awhile ago and now a version of it has won the most recent GP. I thought I would post my version and get some feedback.
Creatures:
3x Squee
1x Krovikian Horror
2x Masticore
1x Morphling
Spells:
4x Zombie Infestation
3x Intuition
4x Counterspell
4x FoW
2x Forbid (this card seems obvious in here, especially with Infiltrators)
4x Accumulated Knowledge
2x Vampiric Tutor
1x Winter Orb
1x Opposition
1x Upheaval
1x Phyrexian Furnace
4x Brainstorm
Lands:
4x Underground Sea
3x Thawing Glaciers
10x Island
5x Swamp
Some thoughts on the deck:
1) I'm not running the Infiltrators because: a) I'm not sure if they are needed and 2) I don't have any, nor do I want to spend $70 to get 4 of them.
2) Is the Worb/Opposition 'lock' that important? I decided to minimalize that and instead go with the Vampirics and some silver bullets. Plus, I would like to run the Thawing Glaciers in here and those obviously don't work well under the Worb.
3) Should I run 3 Volcanic Islands and 1 Mountain maindeck to support Pyro's in the sideboard?
Any thoughts would be appreciated as I would like to play a version of this deck in 2 wks at a PTQ. Thanks in advance.
Toying with it myself. I would say Opposition lock has to be a focus or not used at all. The opplock is good vs creatures and control. However, it is hard to get out vs control. And the top tier control decks all seem to pack fire/ice or some sort of disenchant. I opted to scrap the oppo lock. If you don't want to spend $$ on finkels (like me) ophidians could do the trick. My tentative draft is as such:
//NAME: Up Yours
2 Masticore - critter decks are bad
4 Accumulated Knowledge - intuition etc
1 Upheaval - to tutor for when things are bad
2 Vampiric Tutor - gets stuff
3 Intuition - get stuff
1 Krovikan Horror - duh
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob - duh
4 Daze - amazing for getting early ZI/Phid
3 Thwart - counter, gets stuff for ZI
4 Force of Will - duh
3 Duress - prolly should be 4, but what to cut
4 Ophidian - prolly should be finkel, or scrapped
4 Zombie Infestation - yay
12 Island
7 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
SB: 2 Massacre - ww can be a pain
SB: 4 Coffin Purge - reanimator/mirror
SB: 3 Back to Basics - so good
SB: 4 Hydroblast - dunno bout this
SB: 2 Perish - this may be hibernation since it gets all green perms.
My $0.02
If you are going to run black/blue with intuition then you need to play mind burst. making them discard 3 cards for 2 mana is good.
Eric- I certainly have other things to Intuition for in here that Mind Burst really is not worth the inclusion.
Chance- Definitely if you are planning on running a 1/3 dude that allows you to draw cards, the Infiltrator is the way to go. The only reason to run Ophidian over him is that you have no black in the deck. Otherwise Finkel is obviously better. I'm just wondering whether the deck needs it or not.
Counterspell seems to be lacking from your deck. Thwart/Daze are good in the Winter Orb version, but not at the expense of losing Counterspell. There are definitely worse things that can happen than someone countering a turn 2 Infestation. I think you also want at least 4 of the Squee's/Horrors so that you have the ability to make 2 tokens a turn (I often have one in hand when I Intuition for the other 3). I do like the idea of maindeck Duress, and I guess I just couldn't find room in my build. I also think you are right about the Worb/Opposition; either make it a focus or don't use it at all. Good point.
I guess a new build could look something like this:
Creatures: (11)
4x Shadowmage Infiltrator (still waiting for someone to send me 4 for the cause)
3x Squee (superior to Horror)
1x Krovikian Horror (one is just right)
2x Masticore
1x Morph (c'mon, gotta have Superman!)
Spells: (27)
4x Zombie Infestation (would 3 be sufficient?)
4x FoW (because I play blue)
4x Counterspell (see above)
3x Intuition (the 'engine')
4x Duress (arguably the best black card in the environment, so, what the heck)
2x Vampiric Tutor
1x Upheaval (secondary combo, reset button in the WORST case scenario)
4x Accumulated Knowledge
1x Forbid (I still think at least one belongs in here)
Land: (22)
4x Underground Sea
2x Thawing Glaciers (great against other control, going down to 2 would still would allow for BTB in SB)
11x Island
5x Swamp
Sideboard: (15)
3x Back to basics
3x Hydroblast
3x Hibernation (only reason for this over Perish is to bounce Choke)
2x Massacre (great against Junk/WW)
2x Magical Hack (make Choke work against my opponent)
2x Phyrexian Furnace (would still love to have one of these maindeck)
What do people think of this version? Is this superior to a version with Worb/Opposition/Gush or not?
The only problem with versions posted here is there obvious weakness against a large field. While some have replaced the winter orbs with glaciers, it just makes the deck weaker. The decks ability to make creatures even under an orb makes it quite powerful. The other fact about replacing the orb/opposition combo is that making at least 1 token a turn is good with opposition the last time I checked. The Upheavals are a good idea, but a force on the infestation (or whatever you plan to play after the upheaval) is a wrecking. I suggest sticking to the original version, but with a few tweaks here and there.
Gave it some more thought and decided the ophid/finkel slots were not worth it and worb is good. As such, i came up with this version.
//NAME: Untitled Deck
3 Gush - good with orb
1 Forbid - lock, good call driz
2 Vampiric Tutor - fetcher
2 Masticore - good vs aggro metagame
4 Accumulated Knowledge - intuition
3 Intuition - fetch, boy . . good, dog
3 Duress - i hate having 3 ofs, but there are so many goodies. these replace the thwarts in original
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
1 Krovikan Horror - you can sac zombies to him
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob - 3 is the way to go
1 Upheaval - still good
4 Zombie Infestation
3 Winter Orb
1 Opposition - opted for only 1. Orb is all you need but 1 just in case. easy to vamp for
12 Island
5 Swamp
4 Underground Sea - not sure if 21 land is enough
SB: 1 Masticore - wheenies
SB: 2 Misdirection - control
SB: 3 Massacre darn mages
SB: 3 Hibernation - green perms
SB: 3 Coffin Purge - i like it better than furnace - intuition for it if need be and get four cards
SB: 3 Back to Basics - we don't need no stinkin orb.
Thoughts?
One more thing. What about adding Braids?
Wow, "obvious weakness against a large field." Is that a wordy way of saying it "sucks?"
To comment back about the Winter Orb/Opposition arguement (have to have SOMETHING to argue about). The orb/opposition lock is obviously very good, but it is also situational. We are assuming that for it to be good we 1)have already dropped a ZI on the table and 2) have the recursive engine going to support it. Then, for it to be really good we need to have both the Orb and Opposition going at the same time. Then, we have to hope that our opponent hasn't 1) countered any piece of this or 2) dropped any kind of enchantment/artifact removal at all.
So, what have we replaced these (namely the Worb, Opposition, Gush, and Daze) with? Let's look:
1) Duress- is usefull by itself. Is not reliant on the "combo" to make it good. Also helps against other discard decks allowing us to save counters. Was in the SB of the "original."
2) Forbid- having a recursive counter every turn was "good the last time I checked."
3) Vampiric Tutor- get what you want when you need it. Usefull again by itself. Also helps in that we don't have to Intuition for everything we need.
4) Thawing Glaciers- gaining a mana advantage is key against any kind of control. It also allows me to achieve Upheaval mana more quickly against anything that can't counter the "combo."
5) Upheaval- ok, the one combo piece here. It can be a reset button (not great, but ok) or can fuel a deadly combo. Yes, it can be countered, but would you really try to do it if you didn't have counter back-up yourself? I would potentially give in here an run Oppostion instead as I agree that locking down an opponents resources with a bunch of zombies is indeed strong.
In looking at the deck, it appears we have given up the ability to hard lock someone for a deck that has cards that are versatile and usefull early on. I guess I fell that once we have the ZI raging with recursive critters, we are probably going to win anyway.
Ok, so cards that I would love to have in the maindeck include Capsize, Opposition, Upheaval, and Phyrexian Furnace. Unfortunately there just isn't room for all of these. I do like the original, and once I start play testing this weekend I may find it is better than this version. If so, I will definitely go with that. However, I do think this version also has possibilities just really not feasable with Worb maindeck (namely the Forbid, Upheaval, and Thawing Glaciers). I would love any other comments, but please give me something usefull. Don't tell me to run the original and "tweak" it here and there. Tell me how you would "tweak" it.
Ah Chance, you must have posted while I was editing my "wordy" post. I like your version alot, and I am going to test it (although I'm not going to like it until you get Superman in there!). I also like the idea of Braids, but again a situation of "so many goodies" but only so many slots. I just am not sure he is worth it. Try it though and let me know.
Putting superman in the sideboard i can see (particularly vs stasis or somethin). But i think that maindeck there are better choices. I'm also tooling around with the idea of standstill. Bah! too many ideas, and so few slots.
Drizzt, lemme know if you wanna begin playtesting sooner, i can fire up apprentice and throw diff decks at our various versions.
I playtested the first of my versions last night and only vs. two decks: sligh and miracle grow. Sligh was a non issue, miracle grow hurt when it got orb down before my ZIs got in play. But the matches were 50/50 with grow.
Hey Chance, what does your Sideboard look like?
Now, I'm still not sure about the Morphling and how he works with Worb. Maybe your right about him, but there are very few "I win" cards like him. Most decks are in serious trouble when the Morph hits, so I would like to put him in somewhere unless the Worb makes it to where it just isn't effective. Only playtesting will tell.
Chance, I have an IMac at home, so I don't have Apprentice. I would be willing to test over AIM if you have that. Let me know.
Dunno how to play over AIM. you can email me at a***c@o***t.com to discuss further. Get a PC for god's sake =-P
j/k
LOL!!! Tell it to the wife....
My most recent version seemed to test pretty well. Here it is:
Creatures:
3x Squee
1x Horror
2x Masticore
1x Morphling (is a beatstick, can be fetched with Tutor. Enough said..)
Spells:
4x ZI's
4x Counterspell
4x FoW
3x Duress
4x AK
3x Intuition
2x Vampiric Tutor
1x Upheaval (haven't pulled off the combo yet in testing...)
1x Forbid (good, although more limited with Worb out)
1x Opposition
3x Worb
2x Gush
Lands: (21)- this seems to be enough
4x Underground Sea
11x Island
6x Swamp
Sideboard: (15)
3x Back to Basics (Wow, is this card good)
3x Hibernation (so-so in testing)
2x Massacre
1x Magical Hack (would like a 2nd one. Hehe, no, Forests do not untap)
3x Coffin Purge (seems good)
3x Negator (versus heavy control. Is a quick play with serious beats)
Thanks to Chance for helping me out with this. Any other comments are welcome.
I'll be playing my version tomorrow at GP trial. I'll let ya know how it goes.
Cool. Let me know how the Upheaval works for you (I haven't been able to fire it off in testing yet). I am tempted to drop it for a main deck BtB.
Drizzt, what about dropping one ZI for another Vampiric Tutor? Counting Intuition, that give the deck 9 cards that could get ZI into play.
I tried Upheaval. I play it in T2, but in T1.x the only times I have played Upheaval I already have things under control. I really think that with 3 Tutors the Upheaval should be Furnace. With the high number of Squee's/K. Horror's, Furnace is a really strong bullet to have maindeck.
Just my thoughts.
Hey Chance, how did you do at the GP? I'm dying to find out how the deck performs under real fire.
Hippie, since the ZI's are the engine the deck is based around, I wouldn't want to go below four. This free's up the Tutors/Intuitions to get other pieces depending on what's needed. I don't think main deck Furnaces are a bad idea, and the Upheaval may be the card that gets tossed as it is the least versatile card in the deck.
Well, i won half a box (4th or 5th place or something)
My record was 3-2-1 (sorta, since me and the last guy played, he won the match, but we IDed since only one guy was going to houston and we just wanted product and traded for the byes).
Some notes: I lost the upheaval and played the following version:
//NAME: Untitled Deck
3 Gush
4 Zombie Infestation
2 Daze - these were amazing
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Intuition
1 Forbid - never once locked someone, don't think this card is worth the slot.
2 Masticore - amazing
2 Vampiric Tutor
1 Opposition
3 Winter Orb
1 Krovikan Horror
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Duress
11 Island
5 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
1 Undiscovered Paradise - so i can cast squee with opposition in play
SB: 3 Back to Basics - Amazing
SB: 3 Hibernation - used only once, but was good
SB: 3 Coffin Purge - SB MVP!
SB: 2 Massacre - Used a bunch
SB: 2 Misdirection - control
SB: 2 Thwart - control
Round 1 i played reanimator. Lost the first game since i misplayed and did not recur 2 squees when i needed to. Won the second game by intuitioning for 3 coffin purges after he buried alive. Game 3 was opposition lock. SB was -3 orbs and +3 coffin purges.
Round 2 - finkula. I won game one when he misplayed by not dealing with a masticore. The phrase that won me the game was 'dmg on stack, tap 'core to tap winter orb.' Winter orb lock all the way. Game 2 he got land flooded while i drew massacres for mages and lynxes and btb to lock his lands. SB was -3 WOrbs, -3 gushes, +3 BTB, +2 Massacres, +1 Misdirection
Round 3 - Mirror. Game 1, i FOWed his zombie infestations with a ZI of my own and got squees. Game 2 was the funniest match ever. I countered or duressed every spell he had but 2 (gush and negator) after he mulliganed to 5. The negator beat my head in as he drew enough land to sac to it. Game 3, i resolved ZI first (with FOW and thwart back up, i beleive) and won when i swarmed him and he drew no ZIs. SB was -3 WOrbs, -2 Gushes, +3 Coffin Purges, +2 thwart
Round 4 - wild zombies, he crushed me in two games that were not close. That deck destroys zombie go if you do not draw any ZIs. Two games and i got no ZIs. SB was hibernation but forgot what i took out. THe match lasted all of 3 minutes.
Round 5 - Countersliver (who plays that?) game 1 we both keep 1 land hands. He gets a second land and FOW for mine and a sliver goes all the way. Game 2, i overwhelmed him with ZIs and BTB. Game 3, i misplay by not playing the early BTB because i thought he had the Pyro. SB -3 WOrb, -3 Gushes, +3 BTB, +2 massacre, +1 thwart
Final round - threshogeddon, he gets the speedy draw game 1 and overwhelms me before i can get the combo. Game 2, i opposition and BTB lock him and he concedes after knocking me to 10 before i hibernate his side. Game 3, i again misplay. I have the combo, he playes choke and i counter it. I should have let it hit play. so with no cards in hand, he seals the ZI and i can't keep up. But we ID anyway. SB was +3hibernations, +1 massacre, +3BTB, -3 Worbs, -3Gushes, -1Forbid
The deck did super, and my losses were due to player error. The other guy running zombie go told me later that in nearly each game he sides out finkels. I do think the finkels are not worth it currently. I would also take out the forbid.
I honestly would have only lost to wild zombies if i had not played so poorly. But it was my first tourny in 6 months. Bah!
I would play this version now:
//NAME: Untitled Deck
3 Gush
4 Zombie Infestation
2 Daze
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Intuition
2 Masticore
2 Vampiric Tutor
1 Opposition
3 Winter Orb
1 Krovikan Horror
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Duress
11 Island
5 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
1 Undiscovered Paradise
SB: 3 Back to Basics
SB: 4 Hibernation - threshogeddon and wild zombies are a problem.
SB: 3 Coffin Purge
SB: 3 Massacre
SB: 2 Thwart
few more things, i would probably change the underground seas to undeground rivers for choke. The AK engine only came into play once (sorry, i did not take notes). And everyone at the tourny loved the coffin purge/intuition tech.
One other option is to splash red for fire/ice and pyros from the board. But then BTB is not a good option. Guess it depends on metagame.
Thwart was amazing each time i used it. It counters stuff and feeds the ZIs.
Well, it looks like you did well with the deck. I just have a couple of comments in looking at your report. It seems like the Winter Orb was a rather useless card since you sided it out every game. Therefore, keeping the Forbid in seems good since you still have the ability to lock someone. Heck, even if you can't it's an extra counter. I wonder how you may have done with Mophling in the deck, especially since you seem to remove the Orbs for the 2nd and 3rd games. I agree with ditching the Upheaval seeing as how I never cast it in playtesting. I was going to add Gush, but maybe I'll just add the 4th Duress.
Good report.
You will note that i only ditched the orbs vs decks with all non-basic lands for BTB. I would keep the orbs since they hose monocolored decks. It just so happens that the metagame at the GP was filled with nonbasics.
I also sided them out versus other decks with infestations, since a worb lock would prevent me from countering their ZI and they can still make zombies under the lock.
I would keep the orbs. It is just that the local metagame of the day was either decks with all non basics or decks with zombie infestations.