Read: http://www.starcityccg.com/news/Magic/001201mason.html
Read: http://www.starcityccg.com/news/Magic/Smith/001204smith.html
Then read what I submitted to The Ferret and tell me what you think. :)
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An overreaction to Force of Will?
The last few times I browsed the site, I saw no less than three articles calling for the banning of Force of Will in Extended. I read through the arguments, and would like to raise a few points about them.
First of all, in terms of card advantage, Force of Will is a horrible card. You pay two blue cards to counter one card. In my usual Type I deck, this can be punishing, since the other blue card will be Ancestral Recall or Morphling. There are reasons why Force of Willing a Hymn to Tourach is rarely a good move in Type I.
When an opponent is using Force of Will, he is desperate. He really needs to counter because he is about to win or about to lose. For me, one of the marks out of newbiehood is when the newbie stops being intimidated by counter-heavy decks because he realizes that even mono blue decks cannot counter everything. When a deck with Force of Will taps out, Force of Will does not give him counter ability. It gives him extremely costly counter ability.
This, I think, addresses a recurring point of the articles: Force of Will is always useful.
Again, this is true, but only when you are desperate. You have to recognize the limitation.
The next recurring argument is that many winning decks have Force of Will. I would like to veer away from the “run Force” vs “run weenie” generalization, however. I think that Trix is different from Oath, and both are different from Sliver, even if all can run Force of Will.
Simply put, Force of Will is good in any deck that can expect to have two blue cards in hand. People are often desperate in Magic, a game where one small mistake can make a big difference. So Force of Will is a good safety rope, if a very expensive one.
Looking at another color, how many decks with black do not use Duress or Demonic Consultation? These cards are good black cards, in the same way that Force of Will is a good blue card.
Back during the Tempest block, people were also crying, “Ban Cursed Scroll” and flooding the Net with headcounts of the number of decks that could and could not run it. To a lesser extent, I saw the same arguments for Masticore and then Rishadan Port later on. (One might argue that Force of Will is blue while these are not, but remember the argument against Force of Will is in Extended, where all the dual and multi lands are available and where blue is a natural color for control decks).
Honestly, I doubt many Extended players consider a Sliver deck using Force of Will to maintain its tempo abusive. I doubt many consider it abusive in Oath as well. I think that the real target of the articles was Trix.
To be fair, I have very little experience with Trix, since the Philippine Extended metagame was won by Pande-burst and Legion Land Loss, which killed Pande-burst. But since I said Force of Will is good in any deck that can expect to have two blue cards in hand, it does not take much imagination to realize that you can find a Force of Will and another blue card when you draw 18 cards.
However, Necropotence is not the sole reason Force of Will is good in Trix. Part of it is the Trix combo itself: two cards with a total casting cost of 7 mana, both of them BLUE. Imagine if Replenish, Saproling Burst and Pandemonium were all blue cards.
There is a reason why Illusions of Grandeur + Donate is the deadliest auto-win combo ever printed, even in Type I, and if there is a good reason to get desperate, it is this combo.
After Kai Budde replied to a post of mine on Beyond Dominia (later printed on the Dojo) and explained that the Invitational Trix decks I felt were unimaginative were really the best Type I decks they could create, I posted that I favored the restriction or banning of Donate or the errata of Illusions of Grandeur over the DCI’s Type I solution which was to restrict Necropotence. Trix was gone, but I lost the “classic” Necrodeck I had been tweaking since Ice Age.
Assuming Mike Mason and Bennie Smith want to remove Force of Will from the equation because they believe Extended has been reduced to a combo-fest (in other words a Trix vs non-Trix environment), I hope they address the problem more directly.
The first time DCI tried to address Trix, they banned Dark Ritual, which practically removed black from the game. This included non-Necro decks such as Hatred and Pox, which many players enjoyed and were hardly abusive.
I think a call to ban Force of Will after mentioning its use in practically every deck with blue is hardly different in philosophy.
Oscar Tan aka Rakso
Type I Maintainer
www.bdominia.addr.com
Ateneo de Manila University
Manila, Philippines
Those who are arguing to ban Force of Will aren't after Trix specifically, Rakso. They are after a card which they feel alters the environment to a significant extent (when designing a 1.x deck, one of the first questions one always asks is " how do I deal with force of will".
My problem with banning Force of Will is that it is still a more significant weapon against combo than it is for combo. The reason it is dsigusting in trix and 21 is that they see so many cards, thery're odds of having it are better. So I agree with those who have suggested rotating IA block out of 1.x. That would get rid oif the two biggest problesm (necro and FoW), and leave a smaller card poll to make combos from, helping negate the loss of FoW to non-combo decks.
Oh , and while traditional necro was fun, the card itself is a problem waiting to happen. There is nothing per se wrong with donate and illusions, which on its own is slow and easily disrupted. The problem card is still necro and if it doesnt feed that combo, it'll feed another one (sorry rakso, it doesn't belong in type 1 unless you want an 'honour system' so that people won't abuse it)
Ever since the banning of Dark Ritual and Mana Vault, I've questioned people's (and Wizards') ability to differentiate between a card that is "strong" and one that is "broken". Examples:
Dark Ritual: Turns 1 Mana into 3. Card disadvantage.
Mana Vault: Turns 1 Mana into 3. No card disadvantage, can be used repeatedly, minimal life loss (none in some decks).
Force of Will: "Free" counterspell. Card disadvantage, life loss.
Necropotence: Turns 1 card onto many. Huge card advantage, but at equal loss of life.
So first we have Dark Ritual. This card is the mainstay of almost all black decks; indeed, many black cards are costed to take advantage of this accelerator. Decks like Stompy, Sligh and Hatred have proven time and again that giving up card advantage, in exchange for an often temporary tempo swing or board position, is not guaranteed to win games and is in no way broken. This ban was ill thought out and has resulted in the unnessesary and untimely demises of quite a few interesting and viable decks.
Now, Mana Vault: Like ritual, only, not. No card disadvantage, reusable, fits into almost all decks af any color. The life loss can be dealt with (voltaic key), or simply ignored. One life here or there is a small price to pay for such reliable mana acceleration. Still, the mana gained -is- colorless, which limits it's usefulness. Did this card need banning? Probably not, but the ban does help slow down the enviroment, which allows other decktypes, mainly slower control and aggro-control decks, to compete.
Force of Will: Arguably, the most popular card in Extended. Arguably, because while it is the most populous non-land card, the people playing it don't nessesarily want to be doing so. Many players fall into the "Everybody else has counter-power so I should too" trap. So, is the 'Force' broken? Hardly. When your opponent Forces, they are giving away information: "I'm tapped out and desperate enough to trade a life and two cards for your one card" or "I'm not tapped out so you now know that this is the only counter I have left". How is this broken? Cards like Defense Grid or Sphere of Resistance take care of Force, Thwart, Foil, Misdirection etc. and are Artifacts, meaning anyone can fit them into their decks. These cards are also cheap, and with all the search being run in the current metagame, should not be a problem to find early on. Finally, Force of Will does far more to stop Combos than to aid them. Ban it? Very bad idea.
And at last, Necropotence: For a measly three black mana, this is the most efficient card-drawer in Extended. It's that simple. What other card, or even combination of cards, allows the player to draw fifteen cards on round two? None. Life loss, and the minor downside of drawing the cards at the discard phase are not downsides enough: Players are left with a "perfect" hand, and even if they can't use that glut of card advantage immediately, such sick hand-stacking usually translates into a very favorable advantage at worst, a win at best. This card is far more broken than some other notable banned cards, including the similar Yawgmoth's Bargain. Should it be banned? Yes, simple as that.
Unfortunately, even if WotC finally realizes that the Skull needs to be removed from the environment, I don't think we'll see Dark Ritual and Mana Vault return; the recent unbannings of Mind Twist and Channel in Type1 do give some hope, though.
If only rotating Ice Age block got rid of Necro....unfortunatly, all the good Ice Age cards were reprinted in 5th (Necro, Pox, Orders, Specter, Brainstorm, etc). The only cards IA rotating out kills is: Lake of the Dead (black is now dead altogether), Force of Will, Pebbles (renewal), and Illusions. The only combo left will be Pande-Burst, at it will be forced to rely on Duress as its combo protection. Necro will still be in the environment, but will have no support of either Lake or Ritual. With red being a powerful force in extended, classic necro cannot afford to exist, especially without its speed boosts. Necro, while not truely neutered, will have to wait for some more random combo crap to come break it. Black will also be dead except for multi colored black decks that didn't run Ritual anyway (Survival based decks (recur or death)). Who knows what will happen, but that Trix is still getting 2 or more T8s a tourny is kinda disgusting....
i want to know who is the dumb ass at wizards that was able to sleep at night knowing he printed one of the most broken card drawers ever.
i say (even though i love using the skull to stack my ptq winning hand.) the skull is so broken in extended it needs to be banned.
i say we rotate out the skull (necropotence for all the idiots out there that dont know what im talking about) and rotate in the ritual and vault.
i liked my tinker deck goddamnit.
Let's leave God out of DCI bannings, shall we?
No worries, the DCI shouldn't be banning Jon Finkel anytime soon. ;-}
Star City posted the article:
http://www.starcityccg.com/news/Magic/001213tan.html
In defense of WotC, banning Dark Ritual was not aimed exclusively at hurting Trix. That was clearly the main reason, but not the only one.
Remember this sequence of events?
Player A: Swamp, Sarcomancy/Carnophage
Player B: land, tap for creature/nothing
Player A: City of Traitors, attack, Ritual, Hatred, game over.
Turn 2 kills are not supposed to happen in extended. Arguably, they should never happen. Even Hatred can't win on turn 2 without the Ritual, so banning it makes sense.
The dual nature of Magic is such that either you play fast and try to blitz your opponent, or you play slow and prevent him/her from killing you. Dark Ritual and Shock are the essence of speed. Banning Ritual means shifting the control/beatdown balance in control's favor (it's also why Sligh has grown in popularity at the expense of black). Force of Will is simply the best universal answer available to control. Seeing it in so many decks is no surprise. Does that mean it should be banned?
I think the idea of banning cards is thrown around too lightly. I am myself guilty of accusing a card which just cost me a game of being unfair. If you always lose to the same card, then your claim might be valid. Force of Will just isn't one of those cards.
When you try a last ditch effort to beat your opponent, do you lose because he/she forces it? No. You lose because he/she has drawn way too many creatures off their Survival of the Fittest, or because he/she has drawn their entire deck with a Necropotence, or because he/she has locked you down with a Stasis, etc. The Force just helps these decks, it doesn't make them. Banning Force will only shift the focus of complaints, it won't stop the complaints.
That being said. Very often, you do lose to the same card: Necropotence. Should it be banned? Maybe.
Personally, I think Illusions should suffer a fatal errata. Make the controller lose life when they lose control of the Illusions. This will return Illusions to what it was supposed to do: buy time for a control mage, nothing more. Similarly, Donate will become the goofy card it was meant to be, not the broken tournament winner it is now.
If Necropotence still wins games, that's ok. It's a good card, it is allowed to make people win games. If the same deck featuring Necro takes 2-6 top 8 slots of many, many tournaments... then ban it. Without Donate/Illusions and Ritual, I don't think Necro would be unfair, just good.
About Hatred:
Blue has Force of Will.
Red has Bolt-cousins.
White has Swords.
Black has Contagion and Duress.
Are you REALLY going to run that second-turn Hatred in Extended without at least a Duress for insurance?
Yes. Naturally, it's preferable to Unmask or Duress your opponent before trying a win-or-die attack, but not every deck can respond to a second turn Hatred.
First of all, green has no answer (LLL, Secret Force, SGD, etc.). Second of all, even decks with answers will probably not have found one after just one turn. Even if they do have an answer in hand, they may not have the mana available to cast it. Incinerate or Fireblast won't help you if you have just one mountain in play; Shock/Seal of Fire aren't too useful if you tapped your one mountain for a Mogg Fanatic or a Jackal Pup.
Granted that a Hatred player needs a fair bit of good luck to win on turn 2, but the point is that it isn't good enough for a turn 2 kill to be unlikely, it should be impossible.
Banning Dark Ritual and Mana Vault goes a long way toward insuring that.
Hatred is an unstable deck with a high deviation in its opening draws, though.
completely OT, but that can be changed...
more mana XL as in rain of filth, lake and/or culling the weak+many free creatures, tutor, take advatnage of the chances of getting 3-4 mana on either first or second turn(using ritual+culling the weak, you can have a deck that has 98....% chances of getting 3 mana or more on the first turn, AND a fattie)...Now, that means you can have even more probability for 5 mana on either the second or the third turn.
The real probelm, though, is that you can only have 4 hatred, so you must have tutors(vamp, demonic, consult)
Anyway, that's COMPELTELY OT, but if someone really wanted to make a study on how to have the maximal chances of getting a second or third turn kill with hatred, you could do it 8)
DOH! wrong mills.
ignore the lastpost, please...here's an answer for extended 8)
as i said, that can be changed.
What you probably would want to have is blood pet, culling the weak and rainb of filth for acceleration, with some free creatures(ornithopter, shield sphere, phyrexian walker), good creatures, 4 consult, 4 hatred, some disruption, and you're all set.
Now, the problem is that such a deck would be SO easily killed off.
i honestly dont think that FoW is as broken as you people say it is. Dont get me wrong, it can be powerfull in the "battle agains combo decks" but it is not by any means as powerful as people make it out to me. I say ban necro, bring back dark ritual and mana vault. Hatred relies too much on its opening hand, banning ritual killed damn near every black deck. What mono black deck, or b/(insert fav color here) doesnt run rituals? well, none of them do now because DCI banned it, which in any case was unnecessary.
Personally, I'm tinkering with taking the Force of Wills out of my Counter-oath deck now that most of the fatal, fast combos are out of extended. I have a heavy white base and am trying out absorbs in their place. In the limited matchups I've been able to test, it's been pretty good. The life-gaining effect helps and the card-disadvantage problem is not so troublesome. It combines well with the new Orim's Chant. If you're really paranoid about what they could do to you on turn two, you can always shut them down until you're set up for the counterspell.
It would depend on the speed, but Force is just too good at the tail end of counter wars.
Maybe sideboarding Heroes' Reunion instead?
Oath, though, doesn't quite look like it can use Orim's Chant. You lose a turn by wasting a card and tapping mana to stall them for a turn. Unfair trade.
Only card they should ban from extended is morphling, it would bring alot of new interesting creature posibilities to many decks, morph is totally boring, there must be some non-targeting creature removal in practically every deck, just becouse of superman.